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C_steven_blue
Starlite Member
Username: C_steven_blue
| | Posted on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 04:33 pm: | 
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Dear Dawa, Heather & Jade:
At first I thought I would not say anything because I don't want to be seen as being petty. But then I thought, This is THE ANNIVERSARY CHALLENGE, so I thought my voice should at least be heard.
I tried very hard to stick within the theme and format rules of this challenge, as did most of the poets entered; I know because I read them all.
I find it disheartening upon the occassion of this anniversary that you chose to pick as the winner the one poem that did not follow the format you put at the top of the challenge.
This reflects just one of the many problems inherrent in the way the new challenges are conducted.
Sincerely,
Steven
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Sirens~song
Starlite Moderator
Username: Sirens~song
| | Posted on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 05:46 pm: |
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Steven I have emailed you on this and I am waiting to hear back from you. Thanks
"Breathe-in experience Breathe-out poetry"
~Muriel Rukeyser
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C_steven_blue
Starlite Member
Username: C_steven_blue
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 17, 2009 - 06:57 am: |
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Hi Jade,
As I stated in my email reply to you, the format said specifically, 15 to 25 lines MAX. I thought surely the three of you would adhere to your own rules.
As I said, I worked very hard to keep within the specified format, as did all the other entries... except the one you chose as the winner.
And this was the Special Anniversary Challenge. So I feel hurt because if the rules can't even be followed in a special challenge that is voted on by committee, not all Starlite, then the challenge rules to me just seem like a meaningless joke!
I'm sorry, but that's just how I feel. If formats are laid out then they should be followed or it's not fair to those who do follow the rules. |
Missmarry
Starlite Member
Username: Missmarry
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 17, 2009 - 09:43 am: |
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I agree with you 100% next challenge someone will say she did it out of contex last time so I can too. I have rights. Big mess, Big fight. Something gets closed down Bad Stufff Real Bad Stuffff |
Dawa
Starlite Member
Username: Dawa
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 17, 2009 - 11:46 am: |
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on dante's win
i am one of the hostesses of this 'for whatever reason' disputed challenge.
altho i truly loved all three of my choices, our consensus happened to name dante's poem as winner.
we did not come to our decision lightly.
as criteria, all three of us had in common the notion that of all our finalist choices we were looking for originality, unique voice, a departure from the usual cliche.
part and parcel of the recent discussion concerning our pick seems to be the whole 'how many lines long' factor.
besides the punctuation factor, one may rearrange the poem with a wider page to see that the poem meets the 15 to 25 lines.
if one parses it by rhyme pattern it is thus:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The day began as most all do with my eye's watching and adoring you,
the break of dawn, first light of morn, today a beautiful new word was born
'Lupercalia'.
The night before we had laid so tight, I'd proposed and now you'll be my wife,
but on one condition to which I must obey, find a new word for the world's united romance day.
The second month, the 6th week, there was a list of word's I could not speak,
instead of feeling slightly blue, I took on the challenge whilst I gazed at you.
Eros must of laughed whilst drawing back his bow, to deal me such a challenging blow.
But I accept this quest with all my might, I'll make sure that you become my wife.
Through the twilight's first shot of light, I felt a twinge of failing fright.
What if word's were not to come, not a new expression, I felt struck dumb.
Come now think, this can't be hard, think what you'd write in her banned word card,
to omit the word that rhymes with hours, to give her in place something that rhymes with towers.
Isn't this just fine and dandy. I'm saying this instead of blimey!
Nearly made a fatal slip, least she never took the best word, kiss.
My Dove, my life my special one, who stupid found for me when dove begun,
accept these hours, and sweet flavored dandy, 6 weeks, 14th, say that you'll marry me.
I dove you now as from the start. I hope you understand what's in my cart,
Lupercalia,
happy Lupercalia day, thank goodness this word too was not struck away.
Darling she said I dove you to, and I can't wait to carry you,
I give to you my cart as well, now when we speak of us no-one else can tell,
the passion that we both deeply share, for we'll always have Lupercalia there.
By DANTE
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
this falls within the stated line limits.
if one parses it by main idea per two line couplet, it is the same.
by punctuated sentence it falls well within the challenge guidelines.
being one who participates frequently in challenges, i have often a need to widen the page width to 770 in order to fit the words into form.
for example the recent 10 word challenge...which needed 10 lines with 10 words each line.
this doesn't violate the rules...
perhaps simply having dante repost the poem with wider margins would settle the issue.
for my own decision, i make no apologies...i loved cstevenblue's poem!
but we were three deciding together and i also loved dante's poem...
and here's why;
it was unique in it's language...didn't use cliche for rhyme sake,
the poem itself made light of the cliche language used in stating one's heart to their beloved.
it also referenced a parallel feast from which valentine's day was derived. it was clever, how it seemed to convey the stupefying nature of being so head over heels in love that it is hardly possible to think straight, much less talk right!
i am sorry that feelings were hurt. but aside from simple adjustment to page width, i see no reason to believe that the panel overlooked the stated guidelines.
as i said before, perhaps a simple repost of the poem with wider page width, so that everyone can see what we saw, would settle the matter.
lastly, altho i take my duties as host whenever i am host seriously, it seems that we are merely straining water instead of tea leaves...(hope this is taken with the light-hearted compassion which is my intent.)
again, steven, i did love your poem...but do not feel that dante's fell short of our criteria as hosts, or of the guidelines...
please, any poet out there who likes to enter these challenges, know that not all of the poems which are exquisite win!...many times i have felt as tho mine were the better effort in some challenge or another...but poetry is its own reward. and i am just grateful for a venue in which to share my muse.
moon spirit
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Sirens~song
Starlite Moderator
Username: Sirens~song
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 17, 2009 - 11:49 am: |
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Steven we looked at the line count and felt because of punctuation that it fell within the requirement. Line count can be viewed as actual line by line or by punctuation. Depending on the type of poetry. With the free forms or prose line count is generally recognized by the punctuation. That is a decision that the host or hosts makes. We as a team felt it was within the requirement.
"Breathe-in experience Breathe-out poetry"
~Muriel Rukeyser
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C_steven_blue
Starlite Member
Username: C_steven_blue
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 17, 2009 - 02:40 pm: |
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From the online dictionary: a definition of line...
21. a row of printed or written words
21.
a. A horizontal row of printed or written words or symbols.
22. a unit of verse consisting of words in a single row
23.
a. A unit of verse ending in a visual or typographic break and generally characterized by its length and meter: a line of iambic pentameter.
and...
5. line - text consisting of a row of words written across a page or computer screen; "the letter consisted of three short lines"; "there are six lines in every stanza"
opening line - the first line of a piece of writing
line of poetry, line of verse - a single line of words in a poem
verse line, verse - a line of metrical text
stanza - a fixed number of lines of verse forming a unit of a poem |
C_steven_blue
Starlite Member
Username: C_steven_blue
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 17, 2009 - 02:50 pm: |
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As we talked about in various emails, it was stated by the committee that the puncuation makes up lines. That is a cop out and not true in poetry.
Now, after the fact, if you want to take the winner's poem and rearrange it, you can do that any way you like to get the 25 lines or less max rule of the challenge.
The POINT is, the winner's poem did not do that, in my opinion. It did not meet the criteria, and you are all now trying to justify your choice by changing it after the fact, instead of just admitting that you made a mistake, which any of us can do.
I'm sorry, this makes the challenges a joke, because anyone can change the rules to anything they want AFTER THE FACT to justify what they did!!
Honesty and accountability is no more prevelent on this website than it is anywhere else in life these days. |
Dawa
Starlite Member
Username: Dawa
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 17, 2009 - 04:07 pm: |
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really i don't feel a need to justify our decision,
it was a consensus and meeting of three minds who each had to compromise on something or another...
but i DO think that dante's poem should be posted as i have it above...
that is certainly the way I read it!
which is why i believe that had she used the wider page pixels we wouldn't be having exactly THIS conversation...
i did the same thing that i do when i read someone who has posted a sonnet, but one or two of the lines "spill over" because the line is too long...i know it is still a sonnet by the rhyme pattern...i make adjustment in my mind for the fact that the poet didn't adjust the pixels to accomodate the form.
really, i don't think these challenges are a joke!
rather, an opportunity for everyone involved to grow...
i am sorry that you feel so hurt by this.
but i feel no need to justify our choice, and only explain these things to help your sense of indignation...
moon spirit
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C_steven_blue
Starlite Member
Username: C_steven_blue
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 17, 2009 - 05:14 pm: |
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I might be able to accept your reparsing theory if the beginning of each of the sentences started where you show them and then the rest of the line wrapped over in formatting, but that is not the case. Okay, so as long as we are re-doing the poem to meet your cryteria, let me reparse the poem in rhyme form for you:
The day began as most all do
with my eye's watching and adoring you,
the break of dawn, first light of morn,
today a beautiful new word was born
'Lupercalia'.
The night before we had laid so tight,
I'd proposed and now you'll be my wife,
but on one condition to which I must obey,
find a new word for the world's united romance day.
The second month, the 6th week,
there was a list of word's I could not speak,
instead of feeling slightly blue,
I took on the challenge whilst I gazed at you.
Eros must of laughed whilst drawing back his bow,
to deal me such a challenging blow.
But I accept this quest with all my might,
I'll make sure that you become my wife.
Through the twilight's first shot of light,
I felt a twinge of failing fright.
What if word's were not to come,
not a new expression, I felt struck dumb.
Come now think, this can't be hard,
think what you'd write in her banned word card,
to omit the word that rhymes with hours,
to give her in place something that rhymes with towers.
Isn't this just fine and dandy.
I'm saying this instead of blimey!
Nearly made a fatal slip,
least she never took the best word, kiss.
My Dove, my life my special one,
who stupid found for me when dove begun,
accept these hours, and sweet flavored dandy,
6 weeks, 14th, say that you'll marry me.
I dove you now as from the start.
I hope you understand what's in my cart,
Lupercalia,
happy Lupercalia day,
thank goodness this word too was not struck away.
Darling she said I dove you to,
and I can't wait to carry you,
I give to you my cart as well,
now when we speak of us no-one else can tell,
the passion that we both deeply share,
for we'll always have Lupercalia there.
Again, far more that 25 lines there!
I am not trying to belittle Dante's poem. I think it is a beautiful poem. I thought so when I read it. But she did not parse it the way either of us did. She parsed it the way SHE did. And it did not follow the format of the challenge. Every other entry was parsed to adhere to the format required in the challenge. That is all I am saying. And nothing you can say will change that fact. It was not laid out to follow the format as required by the challenge, I'm sorry, but those are the facts. I invite anyone to look at the poem as posted and tell me that she meant it to be parsed as less than 25 lines. And as far as the punctuation defense, you guys are grabbing at straws. Anything to justify your choice, but not to speak fairly to all the others who entered, or to admit that it is possible you could have made a mistake.
(Message edited by c_steven_blue on February 17, 2009) |
Sirens~song
Starlite Moderator
Username: Sirens~song
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 17, 2009 - 05:22 pm: |
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Exactly Moon and my last thoughts on this because I too feel justified in our decision. Steven is using an online dictionary and I believe would also like to use an online encyclopedia to find the information that backs up the information I presented.
"Breathe-in experience Breathe-out poetry"
~Muriel Rukeyser
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C_steven_blue
Starlite Member
Username: C_steven_blue
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 17, 2009 - 05:43 pm: |
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What is the use of challenge formats if you are not going to adhere to them? |
Rainspirit
Starlite Moderator
Username: Rainspirit
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 17, 2009 - 05:54 pm: |
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I don't normally like to get involved in sound off, but this time I feel I must.
I fully support the decision of the panel.
I feel sure they did not make this decision lightly. Each is a fine poet in her own right and took this challenge on as panel and worked together as a team. I feel sure that each read and re-read the entries! There was discussion back and forth and in the end the consensus was the chosen poem as best entered for all the reasons given.
Thank you ladies...
We could go on and on debating line counts, punctuation and he said she said on this, but all has been said that needs said!
This is over…..Thanks to all who offered an opinion
Renee
Challenge Coordinator |
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