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Mik3y
Starlite Member
Username: Mik3y
| | Posted on Thursday, July 09, 2009 - 10:00 am: | 
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i dont agree that it will all be personal opinions because i believe God thru Jesus Christ his only begotten son [see john] gave authortity to Peter establishing him as the one in place of Christ on this earth making all he binds on earth bound in heaven. Jesus says you about 7 times when he gives the keys and authority to Peter before he is crucified. That is why i believe the pope still to this day has the authority from God to settle disputes.
Michael william James
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Bubby
Starlite Member
Username: Bubby
| | Posted on Sunday, May 17, 2009 - 05:28 pm: |
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"I agree with you but I don't agree with Lewis in his acceptance of the notion that the divine purpose amounts to gloryfication of the creator".
Sure God does not need your glorification,or C.S. Lewis,but what is wrong with divine gloryfication to our Creator ? I give him gloryfication everyday of my life.I praise him for everything He has done for me in my life.Lewis at one time was an Atheist,and after doing a tremendous amount of research,he concluded that God is, was, and always will be.He is the Alpha and Omega.All human questions will be answered upon their demise.One way or the other. Until that happens, it will all be personal opinions that must be personally validated by ones own belief system. |
Njaeok
Starlite Member
Username: Njaeok
| | Posted on Sunday, May 17, 2009 - 01:32 pm: |
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Hey Bubz take a deep breath or two and count to ten. Then read what I wrote again.
I agree with you but I don't agree with Lewis in his acceptance of the notion that the divine purpose amounts to gloryfication of the creator. The creator's glory is self evident and speaks for itself.
Jimbo
Born with the gift of laughter, aware that the world is mad. -- Jimbo
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Bubby
Starlite Member
Username: Bubby
| | Posted on Sunday, May 17, 2009 - 12:33 pm: |
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He discusses divine purpose throughout his book,and I don't recall him talking to a parrot... So are you saying there is a "powerful entity" more involved in self gratification than any real intent."?
And who or what could that powerful entity be?
Who created this powerful entity?How did people discover self gratification? Was there an inherent gene that screamed for satisfaction?
How did it get there? Same creator that made this earth,and on the seventh day He rested.
You can chose not to buy it.I chose to believe it.So we must agree to disagree.I talked to one of your neighbors and he reinforced your statement.He said:"That Jimbo wont buy anything"!
God has the best stimulus package on earth and He gave his son to save us all.Science is awesome,but not as awesome as my God.
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Njaeok
Starlite Member
Username: Njaeok
| | Posted on Sunday, May 17, 2009 - 09:49 am: |
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Bubba;
I admire the thoughts of Lewis up to the point where he refuses to seriously consider notions of divine purpose and just parrots the notion that it's all about singing the praises of the lord. He does so with elaborate intellectual contortions that sound bery impressive but it still boils down to a powerful entity more involved in self gratification then any real intent.
I don't buy it.
Jimbo
Born with the gift of laughter, aware that the world is mad. -- Jimbo
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Bubby
Starlite Member
Username: Bubby
| | Posted on Saturday, May 16, 2009 - 11:03 pm: |
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and my favorite is C.S.Lewis:
"Of course God knew what would happen
if they used their freedom
the wrong way:apparently He
thought it worth the risk.
Perhaps we feel inclined to
disagree with him.But there
is a difficulty about
disagreeing with God.
He is the source from which
all of your reasoning
power comes;you could not
be right and He wrong
any more than a stream could
rise higher than its own source.
When you are arguing against
Him, you are arguing against
the very power that makes you
able to argue at all:
it is like cutting off the
branch you are sitting on.
If God thinks this state
of war in the universe a
price worth paying for
free will-that is,for making
a live world in which creatures
can do real good or harm and
something of real importance
can happen,instead of a
toy world which only moves
when He pulls the strings-
then we may take it,it is worth paying.
What Satan put into the heads
of our remote ancestors was
the idea that they
"could be like gods"-
could set up on their own
as if they had created
themselve-be their own masters-
invent some sort of happiness
for themselves outside of God,
apart from God.And out of that
hopeless attempt has come nearly
all that we call human history-money,poverty,ambition,war,
prostitution,classes,
empires,slavery-the long
terrible story of man trying
to find something other
than God which will make him happy"
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Njaeok
Starlite Member
Username: Njaeok
| | Posted on Saturday, May 16, 2009 - 08:31 am: |
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The idea of a personification of evil seems to be a rather shallow gambit to shift blame to some nebulous entity and avoid personal responsibility.
The following is an excerpt from a novel that says it better then I can at this time.
"And you find fault in the premises do you? Tess inquired.
Yes, Nell replied. There is a fundamental irrationality in considering an omnipotent, loving god who would create a dark side that torments creatures of the light. It seems trivial at first but pain and suffering and the evils of injustice and greed is so prevalent in the affairs of humans that it is really not a trivial matter.
Yes, Tess replied. That is a tough one. The resolution is even tougher. I don’t have a pat easy solution but if you want my opinion I will try to explain the manner in which I came to an uneasy resolution for me.
Yes, Nell replied. I would like that very much.
Analyzing and clarifying definitions was the most important part of my resolving the dichotomy. I had a lot of help from mother and Stan but in the end I had to sort it out for myself. You see? To me the word “god” and the word “CREATOR” are not the same. To me the word god refers to a created entity whose technology is so far advanced that it seems like magic. The word creator in the prime sense refers to the creative phenomena that brought about the reality in which we exist and are a part. That is part of a personal set of definitions in which I avoid using the word god except in conversations about the ancient gods of some culture or another. Stan and mother both insist that most of the ancient mythological gods were real entities that came here for their own purposes but served the grand purpose of kick starting modern humans toward cooperative civilization and the spiritual maturity that brings. I am convinced they are right.
There were many advanced entities that came here to exploit something valuable about our human predecessors. Probably it was different things for different entities. Some of them even used humans as livestock for a food source. Every form of exploitation known today, (some so malicious they have been relegated to the depths of our subconscious and some with such divine loving empathy the species memory motivates glorious works of art and endless loving acts of charity), was imposed on humans by some ancient god or another. The extreme survival pressure forced humans to accelerated adaptation until they crossed a spiritual threshold that forced the ancient gods to leave the earth or to go underground. Our ancient history from about ten or twelve thousand years ago up to little less then two thousand years ago when the last of the ancient gods were forced from the earth’s civilizations, is not myth. It is real history.
Whoa!---- Enough Nell begged. Give me a chance to assimilate.
Nell sat half dressed focused inward for long moments.
Tess begins selecting her clothing and dressing.
What did you say it was that forced the ancient gods to withdraw from earth civilizations? Nell asked.
I didn’t say Tess replied. I don’t know. It was prophesied that the end of days for the gods reign on earth would be marked by the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem. Josephus, the best of the Hebrew historians witnessed and wrote of the destruction of the temple and of a great battle in the skies above. On that day all of the ancient gods fled earth a second time, Venus burned, Mars froze and other unnamed planets exploded forming the asteroid belt. Civilization as it had been known for long epochs collapsed. We the meek had inherited the earth. We the meek are on our own and the dark ages of civilization begin again. The ancient gods have not returned this time to overtly exploit humans but humans have learned well how to exploit one another.
Nell sets contemplating Tess’ words for a while then says I see the patterns of the history you relate. I have to admit in general it makes more coherent sense then the nonsense taught as ancient history in the schools. However it leaves the original dichotomy unresolved. Why would an omnipotent CREATOR create evil? She asked again.
I really don’t know Tess answered. The only coherent speculation I can imagine is that evil is a byproduct of creating good. What is the point of light if darkness doesn’t exist? If reality were an eternal homogenous nothingness ---- she shuddered . Just the attempt to stretch my mind and comprehend such a concept is beyond horror. The dynamic that holds the horror of “nothingness” at bay is the tension of empathy; the intent toward affection or malevolence. To be omnipotent is to be divinely capable of infinite affection and infinite malevolence simultaneously and to have the infinite artistic/intellect required to apply either or both as needed in the creative intent.
I see us and all of reality as the creative art work of a divine CREATOR who loves us and all of reality with infinite passion. She finished and grew silent.
Nell was quiet until Tess begins to finish dressing her. Nell allows herself to be dressed and says in your point of view the Creator loves it all. The Creator loves the dark as well as the light. Do I have it right?
Remember the works of art you love Tess replied. If all the dark tones were removed only the streaked pastel canvass would remain. If all the low tones were removed from music there would be only an annoying constant high pitch. If all the deceit and conflict were removed from the drama presented on the stage or screen there would be no drama. If there is no struggle in a civilization she continued, the citizens grow dull fat and lazy. The barbarians overrun it or it just regresses to a point where struggle is again necessary.
Yeah, and in this model your omnipotent CREATOR created it that way. Nell exclaimed.
Of course Creator did just that Tess insisted. Are we not worthy of entertainment? She inquired.
Physical life is a blast Tess declared taking a hairbrush to brush Nell’s hair. That’s why we keep coming back to it.
So what is the point? Nell asked.
The point is to live Tess said intensely, to experience, to personally know joy and despair, pleasure and pain, to know love and hate, to know evil and divinity, until some when on the other side of eternity; to mature and create our own loving works of art.
That is kind of a nutshell overview of my resolution to the dichotomy Tess continued. All I have experienced and learned so far has served to reinforce and verify that resolution.
I intuitively like it Nell mused aloud as she took the brush and begins to brush Tess’ hair. I will need to worry it a bit intellectually before I fully accept it as a valid working resolution but my feeling is that it is valid."
Jimbo
Born with the gift of laughter, aware that the world is mad. -- Jimbo
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Bubby
Starlite Member
Username: Bubby
| | Posted on Friday, May 15, 2009 - 10:51 pm: |
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To quote an old friend...."I know someone will ask me,"Do you really mean,at this time of day,to re-introduce our old friend the devil-hoofs and horns and all?Well,what the time of day has to do with it I do not know. And I am not particular about the hoofs and horns.But in other respects my answer is "Yes I do".I do not claim to know anything about his personal appearance.If anyone really wants to know him better I would say to that person,:Don't worry,If you really want to,you will.Whether you'll like it when you do is another question". |
Njaeok
Starlite Member
Username: Njaeok
| | Posted on Friday, May 15, 2009 - 12:48 pm: |
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A person of discernment has no need for faith or proof that there is a creative phenomenon.
How could it be that creation itself is not prima fascia evidence that such must be?
Could it be that thousands of automobiles whizzing about somehow is not proof of the existence of automobile makers? How much more complex is the leaf of an oak tree that proceeds inevitably from an acorn?
All the pontifications of all the pontiffs, the mystic rituals of all the religions, the words contained in all the Holy Scriptures are all less meaningful then the first voice of one newborn baby.
The notions of uncommon and miraculous are not synonymous.
Jimbo
Born with the gift of laughter, aware that the world is mad. -- Jimbo
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Bubby
Starlite Member
Username: Bubby
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 13, 2009 - 07:25 pm: |
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"I am reasonably sure that all the religious inventions of mankind are seriously in error."
You know dam well that beaver created that dam,and he did it without the governments interference or supervision.He didn't ask permission from OSHA,and he dam sure didn't ask for cradle to grave medical insurance from the government.He just got fed up with all that dam water washing his children down stream.
He don't stand on the banks of the river,asking for a hand out either.We can learn a lot from God's creatures. I know there is a creator,and I know that the numerous religions have muddyied up the water with their own personal beliefs.
Does that make them any less a saint,when we are all made in the image of God? There is a right and a wrong and we all have it instilled in our souls,spirits,minds,personality.
Where did it come from? Did it slither ashore and morph into a human being? Sounds fishy to me.
Einstein was a brilliant mind,and even he knew that we have a creator.Its our inconceivable mind that cannot grasp what is actually all around us. Wind blowing through the leaves of tree's on a beautiful sunshiney day,is enough for me to know that it is indeed heavenly.
Man can accept what Christ has done,without knowing how it works.I had rather believe in personal salvation,than to pass it of as hogwash,only to find myself later in an area of extreme heat.I'll bet that dam beaver feels the same way too. |
Njaeok
Starlite Member
Username: Njaeok
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 13, 2009 - 07:23 am: |
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THE WAY I SEE IT.
I have some property in Arkansas that has small stream running through. There is a large well maintained Beaver dam that backs up a small lake on the stream.
The first two years I lived on the property I never seen a Beaver but I was convinced that there is a family of Beavers tending the dam.
It is logically possible that all that brush and gravel just washed up and got clogged in the narrow place to form a dam by happentance. But I would have serious concern about the thinking processes of someone who insisted that Beavers are a myth and that dam just happened.
I know for certain that there is a creative phenomena because our reality could not exist without it.
I know for certain that I am not the creator and I am reasonably sure that all the religious inventions of mankind are seriously in error.
Jimbo
Born with the gift of laughter, aware that the world is mad. -- Jimbo
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Bubby
Starlite Member
Username: Bubby
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 13, 2009 - 12:10 am: |
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Disciples Amiday
1. Avot ("Ancestors"): “Blessed are You, Adonai our God and God of our fathers, God of Abraham, God of Isaac, and God of Jacob. The great, mighty and awesome God, God Supreme who extends loving kindness and is Master of all, who remembers the gracious deeds of our forefathers, and who has brought a Redeemer with love to their children's children for His name's sake. King, Helper, Saviour and Protector, blessed are You, Adonai, Protector of Abraham.”
2. Gevurot ("Powers"): “Your might is eternal, O Adonai, who revives the dead, powerful in saving, who makes the wind to blow and the rain to fall, who sustains the living with loving kindness, who revives the dead with great mercy, who supports the falling, heals the sick, frees the captive, and keeps faith with the dead; who is like You, Almighty, and who resembles You, O King who can bring death and give life.”
3. Kedushat HaShem ("Sanctification of the Name"): “You are holy, and Your name is holy, and those who are holy shall praise You every day. Blessed are You, Adonai, the holy God. Selah.”
4. Binah ("Understanding"): “You grant knowledge to man, and teach understanding to humans; from Your own self, favor us with knowledge, understanding, and sense. Blessed are You, Adonai, giver of knowledge.”
5. Teshuvah ("Repentance"): “Return us, our Father, to Your Torah, and draw us closer, our King, to Your worship, and bring us back before You in complete repentance. Blessed are You, Adonai, who desires repentance.”
6. Selichah (“Forgiveness”): “Forgive us, our Father, for we have sinned, pardon us, our King, for we have transgressed, for You are a pardoner and forgiver. Blessed are You, Adonai, gracious One who forgives abundantly.”
7. Geulah ("Redemption"): “Look upon us in our suffering, and fight our struggles, redeem us speedily, for Your name's sake, for You are a mighty Redeemer. Blessed are You, Messiah Yeshua, Adonai, Redeemer of Israel.”
8. Refuah ("Healing"): “Heal us, O Adonai, and we shall be healed, save us, O Yeshua, and we shall be saved, for You are our glory. Send complete healing for our every illness, for You, Divine King, are the faithful, merciful Physician. Blessed are You, Adonai, who heals the sick of His people Israel.” [Remember any in the congregation that need healing.]
9. Birkat HaShanim ("Blessing for Years [of good]"): “Bless this year for us, O Adonai our God, and all its varied produce that it be for good; provide dew and rain as a blessing on the face of the earth, satisfy us with Your goodness, and bless this year like the good years. Blessed are You, Adonai, who blessed the years.”
10. Galuyot ("Diasporas"): “Sound the great shofar to proclaim freedom for all Israel, lift up a banner for the ingathering of Your exiled people, and bring us together from the four corners of the earth. Blessed are You, Adonai, who gathers together the dispersed of Your people Israel.”
11. Birkat HaDin ("Justice"): “Restore our judges as at first, and our counselors as in the beginning, removing from us sorrow and sighing. Rule over us Messiah Yeshua, O Adonai, with kindness and mercy, and vindicate us in the judgment. Blessed are You, Adonai, King, who loves righteousness and judgment.”
12. Tzadikim ("Righteous"): “On the righteous and the saintly, on the elders of Your people, on the Commonwealth of Israel, on the teachers of Your Word, on all true disciples of Messiah Yeshua, let Your compassion flow, O Adonai our God. Grant a good reward to all who sincerely trust in Your name; place our lot with them forever and let us not be shamed, for in You do we trust. Blessed are You, Adonai, the support and security of the righteous.”
13. Bo'ne Yerushalayim ("Builder of Jerusalem"): “To Jerusalem Your city, return with compassion, and dwell within it as You promised; cleanse it of idolatry and wickedness, build it in our day as an everlasting structure; and speedily establish the reign of Messiah Yeshua in its midst on the throne of David. Blessed are You, Adonai, builder of Jerusalem.”
14. Birkat David ("Blessing of David"): “The offspring of Your servant David, Messiah Yeshua, quickly come to bring deliverance; for Your deliverance do we constantly hope. Blessed are You, Adonai, who makes the glory of deliverance to flourish.”
15. Tefillah ("Prayer"): “Hear our voice, O Adonai our God, show compassion and mercy to us, accept our prayers with mercy and favor, for You are a God who hears prayers and supplications.” [You may add a personal prayer.]
16. Avodah ("Service"): “Favorably receive, O Adonai our God, Your people and their prayer, restore true worship in Zion, receive with love and favor our offerings, our prayers, and may the worship of Your people always be favorably received by You, may our eyes behold Your return to Zion in mercy. Blessed are You, Adonai, who restores His Divine Presence to Zion.”
17. Hodaah ("Thanksgiving"): “We give thanks unto You who are Adonai our God and God of our fathers for all eternity. You are the strength of our lives, the shield of our deliverance. In every generation, we shall thank You and declare Your praise for our lives that are entrusted in Your hand, and for our souls that are in Your care, and for Your miracles that are daily with us, and for Your wondrous deeds and goodness that occur at all times, evening, morning, and noon. You are the Benevolent One, for Your mercies are never ended. The Compassionate One, for Your deeds of kindness do not stop, always have we placed our hope in You. For all this, O Yeshua, our King, may Your name be always blessed and exalted forever and ever. All the living will forever thank You and praise Your name in truth, O God, O Messiah Yeshua, our eternal salvation and help. Blessed are You, Adonai, whose name is goodness; it is pleasing to give thanks to You. Selah.”
18. Shalom ("Peace"): “Establish peace, well-being, blessing, grace, loving kindness, and mercy upon us and upon all Your people Israel, for by the light of Your presence have you given us, O Adonai our God, a Torah of life, love of kindness, justice, blessing, compassion, life, and peace, and it is good in Your sight to bless Your people Israel at all times and in every hour with Your peace. Blessed are You, Adonai, who blessed His people, the Commonwealth of Israel, with peace.”
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Pmbulo
Starlite Member
Username: Pmbulo
| | Posted on Monday, May 04, 2009 - 02:37 am: |
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You wouldn’t need to believe if you had proof. Faith is the substance of things we hope for. Faith is the evidence of things not yet seen. You don’t need proof. You just have to believe.
Reminds me of an ancient Greek story of a teenager who killed his friend and was about to be sentenced to death. His mother appeared before the king to ask for mercy on her son’s behalf. The king said “Your son doesn’t deserve mercy.” The wise mother contended, “My lord, oh great king, It wouldn’t be mercy if my son deserved it”
Just like mercy is given to the undeserved so is faith to the things that appear not to make sense.
God is letting things be as there are for now because he gave us a free will to choose good or bad. We are not robots, we were created in His image to subdue and dominate over all things while being mindful as good stewards. Nevertheless, God has not put things in autopilot. He does intervene. When mankind fell, God intervened by sacrificing his son.
Trust me on this one. He will put an end to all this nonsense.
Shalom! Shalom!
Ever-loving,
Potpher
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Jillchuang
Starlite Member
Username: Jillchuang
| | Posted on Sunday, May 03, 2009 - 10:37 am: |
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God's words....the truth
Jesus is our salvation
He is known as the word
God's words...the truth
If we know the truth,
the truth will set us free.
The word of Jehovah God is sharp like sword
With power and authority.
Men don't live by bread alone
They live by God's words...the truth
If we speak the truth, God lives with us
If we lie, we are speaking the words
of the evil ones, father of all liars.
May God's words...the truth
be with us in our hearts
and our life for always.
Christian brothers & sisters, please help to spread the good news of God !
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Josharon
Starlite Member
Username: Josharon
| | Posted on Sunday, June 25, 2006 - 09:29 am: |
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Here is the correct Link for your Poem Ian.
It was copied 3 times...
http://www.thestarlitecafe.com/poems/101/poem_8342689.html
This worked for me.
blessing, sharon |
Poetik_licence
Starlite Member
Username: Poetik_licence
| | Posted on Sunday, June 25, 2006 - 09:00 am: |
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I'm not saying there is, i'm not saying there isn't. i am just totally and utterley confused so i have wrote a poem trying to explain how i feel and answer that question to myself. please don't put me down for being confused.
http://www.thestarlitecafe.com/poems/101/poem_8342689.html,http://http://www.the starlitecafe.com/poems/101/poem_8342689.html} try cutting and pasting if the link does not work, i still haven't worked that out either. ian |
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