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Michael .P (Mik3y)
Starlite Member
Username: Mik3y
| | Posted on Monday, August 29, 2005 - 07:47 am: | 
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If this were true you wouldn't be reading from the Jehova's.
Michael william James
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ALIANNE OUSSAMEUR (Alianne)
Starlite Member
Username: Alianne
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 01:42 pm: |
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Michael: I like what God has to say about your last posting at John 17:3 The New American Bible(catholic)says:" Eternal life is this:to know you, the only true God and him whom you have sent, Jesus Christ." I believe accuracy in the knowledge of God and Christ is what will get us eternal life, don't you??? Of what value is our worship unless it has His approval.
It's a free country and we are able to say as many lies as we want but it does not change the fact that they are lies.
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Anita Stith Tafolla (A_r_tafolla)
Starlite Member
Username: A_r_tafolla
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 09:24 am: |
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I agree with Mick. One moment's revelation if it is not followed by a change in behavior and attitude is not what my Christ had in mind. I have always believed the words written by his brother James, "faith without works is dead."
"The Opposite of War isn't Peace, it's Creation."
Jonathan Larson
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Michael .P (Mik3y)
Starlite Member
Username: Mik3y
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 23, 2005 - 09:17 pm: |
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I agreee with the point we cannot buy or peddle our way to eternal life.. We must have a relationship with Jesus..but this on its own is not enough because if we have a real relationship with Jesus and great faith; it is only evident if we live that faith. We cannot just say i turn my life to Jesus and be granted eternal salvation like some have preached. WE say we turn our lives to Jesus..and we do it exactly how God showed us to..i.e follow all the commandments and receive the sacraments of Jesus's covenant!
(Message edited by mik3y on August 23, 2005)
Michael william James
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Jennifer Maxwell (Jennifer03801)
Starlite Member
Username: Jennifer03801
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 23, 2005 - 04:20 pm: |
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Jehovah Witnesses
A mind controlling cult? And/Or, a Multi-Billion Dollar Publishing Business?
Jeremiah 14:14- "They prophecy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophecy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of naught, and the deceit of their heart".
The main difference between Jehovah Witness and "main line" Christian Church beliefs are big ones. These are over no less than the Trinity, the resurrection, and the divinity of Jesus.
Jehovah witnesses believe Jesus is the Son of God, but not God, and that He did not always exist -but was himself a created being named Michael, the Archangel. Jehovah Witnesses also teach that Jesus never rose bodily from the dead, but that He did rise from the dead as a spiritual being. Jehovah Witnesses will not allow Jesus to be worshipped and they don't believe there is a hell.
Genesis 1:26 (4000 B.C.): "And God said, Let us make man in our image.."
Jesus said Himself He is also God
He also said He is our only mediator between us and the Father
See Bible references of Jesus as one with the Father here
Have you wondered why Jesus did not teach Torah (Old Testament) the way Moses did (i.e. "He said"). Jesus taught Torah in His own name.
John 27: Then saith he to Thomas, reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
John 28: And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
Isaiah 9:6 (written: 712 Before Christ) - For unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given; and the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
John 8:24: "Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I Am, you will die in your sins."
John 8:58: Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM."
Matthew 1:23: Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
The local congregation of Jehovah Witnesses most often seen in an American neighborhood is called a Kingdom Hall. The main governing Body of Jehovah Witnesses with "absolute power" is Headquartered in Brooklyn, New York. This is called the Watchtower". Their governing Body is lead by a president and a group of men known as "The Governing Body". This group oversees every aspect of the organization including the material that is written for the periodicals and the study books. "The Watchtower" claim that they are an organization directed by God. Since 1931, the name for Jehovah Witnesses has been officially "The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society". Some refer to it as just "the Society". Their legal name is: the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania.
Rank and file Jehovah Witnesses are unaware that the "Watchtower" "boards" over the years have constantly changed their doctrines to suit their needs, including twisting biblical references out of context. Jehovah Witnesses have a history of false prophecies, including teachings that Armageddon and the subsequent end of the world would occur in 1914, 1918, 1925, and 1975.
Most Jehovah Witnesses cannot see that their true point of authority is not the bible, but the ever-changing views of their Brooklyn-based Governing Body. The Word of God in the Bible does not change and a prophecy that does not come true is not of God's doing. This history of false prophecies by "The Society" should have been enough for Jehovah Witness members to run--not walk away from these false teachings.
Rank and file Jehovah Witnesses do not know they are being "spoon fed" only what the "Governing Body" allows them to "eat". New Jehovah Witness "recruits" are not allowed to know the complete list of ordinances and organizational stipulations until they have dedicated their lives to service for the Society. " Recruits" and most Jehovah Witness members do not see the "secret" publication meant for Society leaders only. This is known as "Pay Attention" which outlines how to deal with offenses and how to punish members. Its essence is to guide the exercise of and the maintenance of "power" for leaders within a Jehovah Witness Congregation. In testimonials below, ex-Jehovah Witnesses Tom Cabeen and Sandra Sharp discuss their experiences when they began to read the Bible instead of the society's Watchtower publications.
The average American should be aware that a meeting with a Jehovah Witness on their doorstep can have future consequences. A record is kept of each individual with whom the Witnesses speaks, and the leaders in Brooklyn often order elders to call or visit specific individuals. In 1992 the average number of Witnesses involved in door-to-door preaching was 4,071,954. You can be visited any day of the week, because a Jehovah Witness does not have a Sabbath; they regard all days as holy.
The Jehovah Witness Movement was begun by Charles Taze Russell. Born in 1852, Russell founded the Zion's Watch Tower in 1879 and later incorporated the group under the name "Zion's Watch Tower Tract Society" in 1884. Russell began his teachings shortly after wandering into a religious meeting where Jonas Wendell was teaching "Second Adventism" in 1870. Charles Russell subsequently began his own movement with his father and a small group of others after forming a small Bible study in Allegheny, Pennsylvania. His personal "message" began with his rejection of the Christian doctrine of Hell, and he later added many physical and spiritually dangerous doctrines of his own making. Ultimately, Russell rejected nearly every other Christian doctrine, and published his bizarre teachings in a 6-volume series under the name "Studies in the Scriptures". Russell died in 1916 while traveling on a train in Texas. His successor, Joseph F. Rutherford began revising Russell's doctrine.
In 1920, Rutherford began speaking to large crowds falsely telling them that millions of people then living would never die. Between 1921 and 1941, Rutherford wrote twenty books and numerous pamphlets, beginning with his first publication, known as "Harp of God".
Some Extremely False Jehovah Witness Teachings:
The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, headquartered in Brooklyn, New York, teaches that The Father is the supreme God whose real name is Jehovah. They say that Jesus has not always existed, but he was a created being who was originally named Michael, the Archangel.
They teach Salvation is by Works - including monthly quota's of peddling books:
Jehovah Witnesses teach Falsely that Salvation is by Works. The real teaching of the Bible as Christians know it is that salvation is ONLY via the Grace of Jesus Christ and NOT by works.
If Jehovah Witnesses would only believe this single truth in their hearts they would be set free from their present bondage to this false man-made Watchtower organization. It is Satan's system of monthly quota's and door-to-door peddling of Watchtower Books. Anyone merely has to believe in their heart that Jesus Christ is the only begotten (not made/but from the Father) Son of God, one with the Father, who died for our sins and rose from the dead. Jesus is the Word of God, the Second person in the Trinity. One only has to sincerely go to Jesus and ask that He wash your sins in His blood, and you will be saved. Satan can no longer hold those sins up in front of you, because they are washed clean and you will be "reborn" and saved. Sincerity is the key and underlying principle. Do not do this if you are lukewarm. Pray to the Lord Jesus to heal your heart if you are unsure and lukewarm.
Like Muslims, Jehovah Witnesses are never ever sure of their salvation which itself is bondage to Satan. Reborn Christians are sure of their salvation.
John 3:16, "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life" and
Colossians 2:8, 9 "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, that no one should boast"
Another extremely false Jehovah Witness Teaching:
Jesus never rose bodily from the dead according to Jehovah's Witnesses.
In "The Kingdom is at Hand" they explain, "At death he laid aside the human organism in which he ministered as a new creature for three and a half years; and in his resurrection he was no more human. They say; Jesus only rose spiritually, not bodily, from the dead. They teach that after the crucifixion, Christ died and was resurrected as an invisible, non-material, glorious spirit creature. Jehovah Witnesses also teach that the Holy Ghost is not a separate entity, but is a force: the method by which God interacts with the world. This teaching ignores the fact/truth that the Lord invited Thomas to touch His wounds.
This group also teaches the Heavenly Kingdom took effect in 1914 with the invisible enthronement of Christ as King. They preach it is currently occupied by a little flock or Anointed Class of about 135,400 people. All were selected after Christ's ascension into heaven at Pentecost (33 A.D.) and during subsequent centuries according to them. Jehovah Witnesses say the selection of the full complement of 144,000 was completed in 1935. Some 8,600 are still living on earth. They will spend eternity with God and Christ as spirit creatures. The latter number increases slightly from time to time as anointed but unfaithful members are replaced. Witnesses say; Christ's Second Coming was not a physical return to earth. It was an invisible event in 1914 in which Satan and Christ engaged in a heavenly battle. Afterwards, Christ began to rule the Heavenly Kingdom as King of Kings. Satan was expelled to Earth. They say World War I was a visible sign of Satan's earthly demise and the beginning of the woes that would accompany the "last days of this system of things."
MAN'S DESTINY:
Jehovah Witness doctrine says that those people who are not members of the Watchtower organization will be destroyed by Jehovah God and cease to exist. But that if a faithful Jehovah Witness is not part of the 144,000 anointed ones they will live forever on earth in paradise. The 144,000 anointed ones will reign with Jehovah God in heaven. Jehovah Witnesses teach no concept of hell. Going door-to-door will help determine a person's fate according to the latest Jehovah Witness doctrine.
Bible Probe Comment: Christians know this to be a false doctrine, because salvation is dependent solely on a person's relationship with Jesus, the Christ. One cannot buy or "peddle" their way to eternal life.
LORD's SUPPER ONCE A YEAR:
This is done once a year at the Memorial of Christ's death. Only the approximately 8600 living Jehovah's Witnesses who are part of the 144,000 Anointed Class actually partake in the meal. The general membership (formerly called the Jonadab Class and now called the Great Crowd) are present and observe.
MUST BE A JEHOVAH WITNESS TO BE SAVED: According to the Witnesses, Salvation requires that one must accept doctrines as interpreted by the Governing Body from the Bible to be saved. To be saved they must also be baptized as a Jehovah's Witness and follow the program of works as laid out by the Jehovah Witness Governing Body.
UN-CHRISTIAN BEHAVIOR (SHUNNING): The shunning or harassment of former Jehovah's Witnesses by active members of the sect is behavior that is mandated by the governing body of the Jehovah's Witnesses' church. Shunning has been known to cause severe emotional distress to estranged Witnesses, occasionally even leading to their suicides. Suspected of apostasy, many very sincere and well-respected Jehovah Witnesses have been "disfellowshipped" in "kangaroo court" judicial proceedings with little or no advanced warning.
To Jehovah Witnesses who leave and find the truth that Jesus is one with the Father and also God, please take consolation in these words:
Matthew 10:29-30- "No man has left house, or brothers, or sisters, or mothers, or fathers, or wife, or children, or lands for my name sake and the gospel that will not gain a hundred fold of houses, and brothers, and sisters, and mothers, and fathers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life"
In September 1981 the governing body changed the rules so that suddenly, Witnesses were to stop greeting practically all disfellowshipped persons, not even saying 'hello' to them. And for the first time family members were to cut any and all unnecessary ties with relatives who were disfellowshipped. Although husbands and wives had to continue rendering marriage dues to disfellowshipped mates and parents were to provide for minor children, except in cases of extreme illness or emergency, disfellowshipped family members were to be shunned.
Year 1889: Jehovah's Witness founder Charles T. Russell falsely prophesized:
"...the final end of the kingdoms of this world, and the establishment of the Kingdom of God, will be accomplished at the end of A.D. 1914."
Year 1910: Jehovah's Witnesses are told not to read the Bible by itself, because it is not the final authority. In modern days they encourage Bible study through use of Watch Tower publications as guides and their own version of the Bible.
Year 1938: Jehovah Witnesses are told that because the end is so near, they are to wait until after Armageddon to "marry and rear children". (see: Watchtower, November 1, 1938)
Year 1966: The Watchtower predicts, "According to this trustworthy Bible chronology six thousand years from man's creation will end in 1975".
Did you know that the Jehovah Witness founder Charles T. Russell was well into Astrology and Egyptology and pyramidology, and it was later printed in a Watchtower Magazine (June 15, 1922) that he had wrote:
"When Uranus and Jupiter meet in the humane sign of Aquarius in 1914, the long promised era will have made a fair start in the work of setting man free to work out his own salvation, and will insure the ultimate realization of dreams and ideals of all poets and sages in history"
Did you know that Pastor Charles T. Russell's book "The divine plan of the ages" shows Russell was a Freemason and used all the Logo's on his publications for years. The cross and crown being one of these and the spread wings with the sun dial in the center was used on most of his early books. Even the terms later used by the Watchtower organization such as "Golden age" and "Mellennium dawn" were associated with the occult and magic movements, and did not have any foundation in the Bible as they would lead you to believe. When Charles T. Russell died in 1916 he was buried with a marker a few feet away from his tomb sculptured as a large pyramid five to six feet high, with the Mason logo embossed on it and remains to this day for all to see. See more on the occultist society known as Freemasonry here.
Did you know that Jehovah Witnesses believed for about 50 years of their history that the great pyramid of Giza, in Egypt was the second witness for God after the Bible? (see hints of it in their book "Jehovah's Witnesses proclaimers of God's Kingdom" p. 200).
Did you know that Jehovah Witnesses falsely prophesized that the old men of God (Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, etc.) would rise from the Dead in 1925?
Symptoms of a Cult (Isolation/Separation):
Did you know that Jehovah Witnesses are not encouraged to socialize outside their religious circle and they are discouraged from developing interests outside their community. For example, they are advised not to seek a higher education, or to pursue private pastimes such as hobbies.
Did you know that Jehovah Witnesses cannot accept blood transfusions and cannot sing national anthems.
Testimonials from ex-Jehovah Witnesses
Sandra Sharpe's testimony:
She asked me if I was one of Jehovah's Witnesses and I said, "Yes". She asked me who my God was and I said, "Jehovah". She then asked me if the apostle Thomas had the same God as I, again I replied, "Yes". Then she turned to John 20:28 in my own Bible and had me read it out loud. I had never read that scripture before and was stunned. Thomas referred to Jesus as his God.
Read this heartfelt story of an ex-Jehovah Witness who found truth by the Lord's side - here
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Tom Cabeen's Testimony:
My experience with the Witnesses made me see clearly how easy it is to get caught up in organizational activity and lose sight of the true nature of Christianity and the richness of the Christian life and experience. I believe that the Bible tells the story of a living God who created us for a purpose. When we rebelled against Him, He sent his own Son, Jesus Christ, who willingly died as a ransom to rescue us from sin.
Former overseer of the Watchtower printing and pressroom at Bethel Headquarters discusses his questioning of Watchtower publications after he began reading the Bible. here
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Both Jim and Marilyn were becoming increasingly unhappy with the leadership of Jehovah's Witnesses during the late 1970s, however. Neither believed the Watch Tower Society's assertion that the present world would probably end in 1975, and both were taken aback by the fact that for years the Society refused to admit any fault in the matter. Both also became distressed over the Watch Tower's methods of cajoling ordinary Witnesses into going preaching from door to door, the Society's lack of love and concern for ordinary persons, and the mistreatment of their older son, David, for attending university.
Read this entire testimony - here
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Speaking of Jehovah Witnesses, an avid collector of Watchtower publications writes; "I now know they have re-written it's history and lied repeatable to cover their past, even editing out of new reprint books and index's any information that might cause embarrassment to them."
Read Richard's entire Testimony - here
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When I was about 12 years old, my mom's trust fund, which we had been living on so that she could be a full time Pioneer, ran out, and she decided that we should go on welfare. She owned our home, though, and was told by one of the elders that she wouldn't be able to get welfare because of that. He suggested she sell him the house for $1.00 and then he would be her landlord, and allow her to live there and pay him rent. I protested, asking her to get a worldly lawyer to check it out, but she didn't listen, of course. She sold him the home, and that's when the real problems began.
Read Barbara's entire Testimony - here
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I remember one elder very well, a man in his 50’s, he would take the opportunity to touch and fondle the younger sisters while he was out in the service with them, because the young sisters were all afraid of this man they were afraid to speak up, and of course nothing was ever done to stop this practice or to bring discipline to this elder. This elder also was a pioneer and had great opportunities to push himself on these young girls. I did not find out about this until sometime later, but I was disgusted by the practice that was going on. Of course justice was never served, and he continued on for many years, causing emotional trauma in the lives of many young girls.
For in depth knowledge about Jehovah Witnesses, read the many "Articles" written at the "Watchman Fellowship"
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ALIANNE OUSSAMEUR (Alianne)
Starlite Member
Username: Alianne
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 23, 2005 - 02:25 pm: |
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JENNIFER PUBLISHED BY JW'S As to what they believe. It is very easy for people to print lies but here you have the beliefs from the people themselves.
WHAT JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES BELIEVE
Belief Scriptural Reason
Bible is God’s Word and 2 Tim. 3:16, 17;
is truth 2 Pet. 1:20, 21; John 17:17
Bible is more reliable Matt. 15:3; Col. 2:8
than tradition
God’s name is Jehovah Ps. 83:18; Isa. 26:4; 42:8, AS;
Ex. 6:3
Christ is God’s Son and Matt. 3:17; John 8:42; 14:28;
is inferior to Him 20:17; 1 Cor. 11:3; 15:28
Christ was first of God’s Col. 1:15; Rev. 3:14
creations
Christ died on a stake, Gal. 3:13; Acts 5:30
not a cross
Christ’s human life was Matt. 20:28; 1 Tim. 2:5, 6;
paid as a ransom for 1 Pet. 2:24
obedient humans
Christ’s one sacrifice Rom. 6:10; Heb. 9:25-28
was sufficient
Christ was raised from 1 Pet. 3:18; Rom. 6:9;
the dead as an immortal Rev. 1:17, 18
spirit person
Christ’s presence is in John 14:19; Matt. 24:3;
spirit 2 Cor. 5:16; Ps. 110:1, 2
We are now in the ‘time of Matt. 24:3-14; 2 Tim. 3:1-5;
the end’ Luke 17:26-30
Kingdom under Christ will Isa. 9:6, 7; 11:1-5;
rule earth in righteousness Dan. 7:13, 14; Matt. 6:10
and peace
Kingdom will bring ideal Ps. 72:1-4;
living conditions to earth Rev. 7:9, 10, 13-17; 21:3, 4
Earth will never be destroyed Eccl. 1:4; Isa. 45:18; Ps. 78:69
or depopulated
God will eliminate present Rev. 16:14, 16; Zeph. 3:8;
system of things in the Dan. 2:44; Isa. 34:2; 55:10, 11
battle at Har–Magedon
Wicked will be eternally Matt. 25:41-46; 2 Thess. 1:6-9
destroyed
People God approves will John 3:16; 10:27, 28; 17:3;
receive everlasting life Mark 10:29, 30
There is only one road to Matt. 7:13, 14; Eph. 4:4, 5
life
Human death is due to Rom. 5:12; 6:23
Adam’s sin
The human soul ceases to Ezek. 18:4; Eccl. 9:10;
exist at death Ps. 6:5; 146:4; John 11:11-14
Hell is mankind’s common Job 14:13, Dy;
grave Rev. 20:13, 14, AV (margin)
Hope for dead is 1 Cor. 15:20-22;
resurrection John 5:28, 29; 11:25, 26
Adamic death will cease 1 Cor. 15:26, 54; Rev. 21:4;
Isa. 25:8
Only a little flock of Luke 12:32; Rev. 14:1, 3;
144,000 go to heaven and 1 Cor. 15:40-53; Rev. 5:9, 10
rule with Christ
The 144,000 are born again 1 Pet. 1:23; John 3:3;
as spiritual sons of God Rev. 7:3, 4
New covenant is made with Jer. 31:31; Heb. 8:10-13
spiritual Israel
Christ’s congregation is Eph. 2:20; Isa. 28:16;
built upon himself Matt. 21:42
Prayers are to be directed John 14:6, 13, 14; 1 Tim. 2:5
only to Jehovah through Christ
Images should not be used in Ex. 20:4, 5; Lev. 26:1;
worship 1 Cor. 10:14; Ps. 115:4-8
Spiritism must be shunned Deut. 18:10-12; Gal. 5:19-21;
Lev. 19:31
Satan is invisible ruler of 1 John 5:19; 2 Cor. 4:4;
world John 12:31
A Christian ought to have no 2 Cor. 6:14-17; 11:13-15;
part in interfaith movements Gal. 5:9; Deut. 7:1-5
A Christian should keep Jas. 4:4; 1 John 2:15;
separate from world John 15:19; 17:16
Obey human laws that do not Matt. 22:20, 21;
conflict with God’s laws 1 Pet. 2:12; 4:15
Taking blood into body Gen. 9:3, 4; Lev. 17:14;
through mouth or veins Acts 15:28, 29
violates God’s laws
Bible’s laws on morals must 1 Cor. 6:9, 10; Heb. 13:4;
be obeyed 1 Tim. 3:2; Prov. 5:1-23
Sabbath observance was given Deut. 5:15; Ex. 31:13; Rom. 10:4;
only to Israel and ended Gal. 4:9, 10; Col. 2:16, 17
with Mosaic Law
A clergy class and special Matt. 23:8-12; 20:25-27;
titles are improper Job 32:21, 22
Man did not evolve but was Isa. 45:12; Gen. 1:27; Matt. 19:4
created
Christ set example that must 1 Pet. 2:21; Heb. 10:7;
be followed in serving God John 4:34; 6:38
Baptism by complete immersion Mark 1:9, 10; John 3:23;
symbolizes dedication Acts 19:4, 5
Christians gladly give public Rom. 10:10; Heb. 13:15;
testimony to Scriptural truth Isa. 43:10-12
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ALIANNE OUSSAMEUR (Alianne)
Starlite Member
Username: Alianne
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 23, 2005 - 01:26 pm: |
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Jennifer: you are a big girl so it should not be too difficult for you to find out what the defenition for Christian and cult is. You have many encyclopidias at your disposal |
Jennifer Maxwell (Jennifer03801)
Starlite Member
Username: Jennifer03801
| | Posted on Sunday, August 21, 2005 - 08:59 pm: |
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Is the Jehovah's Witness religion Christian?
The answer to the question is, "No. It is not Christian." Like all non-Christian cults, the Jehovah's Witness organization distorts the essential doctrines of Christianity. It denies the deity of Christ, His physical resurrection, and salvation by grace. This alone makes it non-Christian. To support its erring doctrines, the Watchtower organization (which is the author and teacher of all official Jehovah's Witness theology), has even altered the Bible to make it agree with its changing and non-Christian teachings.
Typical with cults that use the Bible to support its position is a host of interpretive errors:
Taking verses out of their immediate context.
Refusing to read verses in the entire biblical context.
Inserting their theological presuppositions into the text.
Altering the Biblical text to suit their needs.
Latching onto one verse to interpret a host of others.
Changing the meanings of words.
Proclaiming some passages to be figurative when they contradict their doctrines.
Adding to the Word of God.
Additionally, the Jehovah's Witness organization requires of its members regular weekly attendance at their "Bible Study" meetings where they are repeatedly indoctrinated with anti-Christian teachings. This is done by reading the Watchtower magazine, following along with what it says, reading the questions it asks, and reciting the answers it gives. In other words, the Watchtower Organization carefully trains its members to let the Organization do their thinking for them. For confirmation of this, please read Does the Watchtower organization control the JW's thinking?
The Witnesses are told they will be persecuted when they go door to door teaching their doctrines. They are further told that this is simply the enemy fighting against God's organization because they are in "the truth." So, when someone disagrees with them, they are conditioned to reflect on what the Watchtower has told them. They then feel confirmed in being in God's true organization on earth (like all cults claim). They are strongly encouraged to have friends and acquaintances that are only JW’s, thereby keeping outside examination to a minimum. They are told to shun those who leave their group, that way, there is no way to see why someone has left and no way to find out that they are in error from those who have found the truth in Christ. They are conditioned to shy away from any real biblically knowledgeable person. An example of this is frequently found on the Internet. I was once banned from a Jehovah's Witness chat room after I not only answered their objections to the Trinity and deity of Christ, but challenged them in return. Subsequently, my name was passed around to all other Jehovah's Witness rooms where I was banned from them as well. This is a frequent occurrence on the Internet where the Jehovah's Witnesses are alive and well. It is obvious that critical examination of their doctrines is not encouraged by the Watchtower Organization.
The Jehovah's Witnesses consider themselves to be Christians because they believe they are serving the true and living God. Like many cults, they think they are the only true church on earth. Yet, they deny the Trinity, the deity of Christ, the personhood of the Holy Spirit, Jesus' physical resurrection, and salvation by grace through faith.
The Jehovah's Witnesses are discouraged from looking into Jehovah's Witness history or old Watchtower literature which is replete with contradictions, altered doctrines, and false prophecies. Instead, they are indoctrinated repeatedly against basic Christian doctrines (Trinity, deity of Christ, etc) and into the notion that they alone are the true servants of God and that all others are either in "Christendom" or simply unbelievers.
Primarily, the Jehovah's Witness organization is a mind control organization that uses its people to pass out literature and send in "donations" to the headquarters in Brooklyn, New York.
"Thus the Bible is an organizational book and belongs to the Christian congregation as an organization, not to individuals, regardless of how sincerely they may believe that they can interpret the Bible." The Watchtower, Oct. 1, 1967. p. 587.
The Watchtower organization of the Jehovah's Witnesses is a non-Christian organization that uses its people to promulgate false doctrines, sell a multitudinous amount of literature, and expand its grip into the lives of its members and their families.
It is a non-Christian cult.
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Jennifer Maxwell (Jennifer03801)
Starlite Member
Username: Jennifer03801
| | Posted on Sunday, August 21, 2005 - 08:33 pm: |
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E. Examples of mistranslation within NWT in order to teach their that Jesus was created:
First and most obviously to anyone who has looked at the NWT is the appearance of JEHOVAH in the NT portion over two hundred times where the Greek text has KURIOS (LORD). The second way in which the NWT has systematically abused the divine names or titles is in its handling of text in which Jesus is called God (Isa 9:6; John 1:1,18; 20:28; Rom 9:5; Titus 2:13; Heb. 1:8; 2 Peter 1:1; 1 John 5:20; Acts 20:28), of these, the NWT translates four so that Jesus is not called God at all (Rom 9:5; Titus 2:13; Heb. 1:8; 2 Peter 1:1), and two so that he is "A god" or "god" (John 1:1, 18). The remaining three texts (Isa 9:6; John 20:28; 1 John 5:20), are not mistranslated, but are interpreted so that either Jesus is not called God at all or he is called God only in a lesser sense. In short, wherever possible, the NWT translates texts that call Jesus God in such a way as to keep the text from making that identification!
Genesis 1:2
"Spirit of God" changed to "God's active force."
The revision modifies the original noun with a more impersonal form as the JWs reject the orthodox Christian belief in the personality of the Holy Spirit.
Exodus 3:14
"I am" changed to "I shall prove to be."
The revision clouds the connection between God's self proclaimed title and Jesus' proclamation of being the same in John 8:58, as the JW rejects the deity of Jesus.
Numbers 1:52
"Under his own standard" changed to "by his [three-tribe] division."
The Hebrew word degal translated as "standard" literally means flag or banner. Since the JWs regard saluting a flag as an act of idolatry, the text has been altered according to their doctrinal bias. (Same revision found in Num. 2:2, 3, 10, 18, 25; 10: 14, 18, 22, 25.)
Isaiah 43:10
"Nor will there be one after me" changed to "after me there continued to be none."
The original future tense of the verb indicates that there will never be another being sharing in God's divinity. The altered tense suggests credibility to the JW doctrine of Jesus' becoming a "mighty god" while still being less than Jehovah in nature. (See the John 1: I discussion below for another expression of this JW distortion.)
Ecclesiastes 12:7
"The spirit returns" changed to "the spirit itself returns."
The passage indicates the return of a human spirit to God after death. Since the JWs believe in an unconscious state after death, "itself' has been inserted to suggest a more impersonal reference to spirit.
Matthew 2:11
"Bowed down and worshipped him" changed to "did obeisance to it"
The JWs evade recognizing Jesus as worthy of worship as a divine being by altering the form of honor that he receives from men and angels. The Greek word proskuneo literally means "worship." The use of "obeisance" is a NWT adaptation. (Same revision found in Matt. 8:2; 9:18, 14:33; 15:25; 28:9, 17; Mark 5:6; 15:19; Luke 24:52; John 9:38; Heb. 1:6.)
Matthew 5:19
"Least in the kingdom of heaven" changed to "least in relation to the kingdom of the heaven."
The passage indicates that a disobedient believer who sins can still find forgiveness and eternal life. The JWs believe heaven is reserved for only 144,000 specially designated servants of God. The revision suggests more separation between these groups through a status hierarchy.
Matthew 25:46
"Eternal punishment" changed to "everlasting cutting-off."
The Greek word kolasis translated "punishment" indicates continuous torment, but the NWT revision suggests "termination," as the JWs promote the doctrine of annihilationism regarding condemned souls.
Mark 1:4
"Baptism of repentance" changed to "baptism [in symbol] of repentance. "
Nothing in the original Greek text justifies the insertion of "in symbol." The revision undermines the significance of John the Baptist's ministry, the Jewish meaning of baptism and the Christian sacrament of baptism in contrast to the more regimented JW baptism requirements.
Luke 12:8
"Acknowledges me" changed to "confesses union with me."
The addition of "union" suggest something more than what the original Greek actually states and adds further credibility to the NWT distortion presented in John 6:56 below.
Luke 23:43
'Today you will be with me" changed to "I tell you today, You will be with me."
Jesus assured the thief on the cross that their spirits would soon enter the spiritual/heavenly realm together. As the JWs reject the belief in the conscious survival of the human spirit after death, their revision suggests that "today" deals with the time of the statement rather than the relocation of their spirits.
John 1:1
"Word was God" changed to "Word was a god."
The JWs reject the orthodox Christian belief in the deity of Jesus. The revision asserts that Jesus was someone other than God Himself.
John 1:12
"Believe" changed to "exercise faith."
The orthodox Christian doctrine of spiritual justification and rebirth before God by belief in Jesus is in conflict with the JW doctrine of salvation by works (i.e., obedience to their organization). The revision attempts to describe salvation as a continuous process rather than a radical encounter and transition (Same revision found in John 3:16, 18; 6:29; Rom. 4:3, 10:4, 9, 10.)
John 6:56
"Remains in me" changed to "remains in union with me."
The mystical union between the individual human spirit and the Spirit of Jesus is obscured by restructuring "in" with a compound form. The substitution implies more separation between a Christian and Jesus. (Same revision found in John 14:20; Rom. 8:1, 2, 10; 12:5; 2 Cor. 5:17; Gal. 3:28; Eph. 1:13*; 2:10, 13, 15, 21, 22; 3:6; Col. 1:14*, 16*, 27; 2:6, 10*, 11, 12*; 3:3; 1 Thes. 4:16; 5:18; 1 John 3:24; 4:4; 5:20. Verses with an asterisk (*) indicate where the revision uses "by means of" or "in relationship to" rather than "in union with.")
John 8:58
"I am" changed to "I have been."
Same intent as described in Exodus 3:14 above.
John 14:14
"IF YOU ask [me] anything in my name, I will do it."
"me" is omitted to deny the fact we pray to Jesus.
John 14:14 should also be mentioned. In the NWT this reads; "IF YOU ask anything in my name, I will do it." The Greek text in the KIT, however, has ME after ask, so that it should be translated; "If you ask ME anything in my name, I will do it." It is true that some later Greek manuscripts omitted this word, but most of the earlier ones include it, and most modern editions of the Greek NT include it. At the very least, the NWT ought to have mentioned this in a note!
John 14:17
"Beholds him or knows him" changed to "beholds it or knows it."
The revision ignores the context of the pronoun with the Comforter role in the preceding verse to deny the personality of the Holy Spirit.
John 17:5
"Glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you" changed to "glorify me alongside yourself with the glory that I had alongside you."
The original text reflects the shared deity of God the Father and Jesus before the creation of the world, but the revision suggests different natures as implied by different states of glory.
John 17:21
"Are in me" changed to "are in union with me."
The original statement by Jesus indicates his shared deity with the Father. The revision undermines this by suggesting a greater separation between them.
Acts 10:36
"Lord of all" changed to "Lord of all [others]."
The revision suggests that even though Jesus is highly honored, he is still one among many of God's created beings. (Similar revisions found in Rom. 8:32; Phil. 2:9; Col. 1: 16-17.)
Acts 20:28
They change "God purchased the church with His own blood" to God purchased the church with the blood of His son"
Wrath and indignation will come to every Jw from the Governing Body, who even suggests God purchased the church with His own blood... the blood of Jesus... who is God!
Romans 2:29
"By the Spirit" changed to "by spirit."
Although the definite article 'the" does not literally appear in the Greek, it is implied by the form that (pneuma) appears in. The revision, however, translates pneuma in a more abstract form to evade the reality of the Holy Spirit. (Same revision found in Rom. 15:19; Eph. 2:22; 3:5; Titus 3:5; James 2:26; 2 Peter 1:21.)
Rom 8:1
"Therefore those in union with Christ Jesus have no condemnation," Which omits the word NOW.
The NWT omits key words when to include them may contradict JW doctrine. The most glaring example is Rom 8:1 "Therefore those in union with Christ Jesus have no condemnation," Which omits the word NOW. This omission is evidently motivated by the fact that the JW's do not believe anyone can claim NOW to be free of condemnation.
Romans 8:23a
"Have the firstfruits of the Spirit" changed to "have the firstfruits, namely the spirit."
This represents another form of disguising the separate personality of the Holy Spirit as in Rom. 2:29 above. The original text refers to the derivatives of the Spirit, but the revision identifies the spirit as a derivative.
Romans 8:23b
"The redemption of our bodies" changed to "the release from our bodies by ransom."
This revision avoids the suggestion that there is continuity of either body or soul after death. Their teaching that the soul ceases to exist at the death of the body precludes the ownership of, or relationship to, a body that must be redeemed.
Romans 8:28
"All things" changed to "all his works."
The revision undermines the sovereignty of God by suggesting that He controls only the things He is directly involved in doing. This implies that God does not work ALL things together for the good of those that love God, but only those things which he himself does, over which he has control.
Romans 8:29
"Those God foreknew" changed to "those whom he gave his first recognition."
The revision obscures the nature of God's knowledge and power as a first recognition may or may not be foreknowledge.
Romans 9:5
"Christ, who is God over all, forever praised!" changed to "Christ, [sprang] according to the flesh: God who is over all, [be] blessed forever."
The direction proclamation that Christ is God is obscured by the altered text.
Romans 10:13
"Lord" changed to "Jehovah."
This revision obscures the fact that the Lord referred to in verse 13 is the same Lord called Jesus in verse 9. Since the JWs reject the deity of Jesus, the revision is made accordingly. The Greek word, kurios, translated "Lord" has been revised to "Jehovah" over 200 times in the NWT. The JWs insist that this is the only valid title for God, even though Greek-speaking Jews used "Lord" and "God" in place of "Yahweh" (the source of "Jehovah") throughout their Septuagint translation of the Old Testament. Furthermore, the Bible contains dozens of names for God other than Lord, Yahweh, or Jehovah.
Romans 13:1
"Authorities that exist have been established by God" changed to "authorities stand placed in their relative positions by God."
Since the JW regard saluting a flag, military service and similar forms of submission to government as idolatry, they have added words to the text to weaken the proclaimed authority of government.
1 Corinthians 6:19
"Your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit" changed to "the body of YOU people is [the] temple of the holy spirit."
To avoid recognition of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in the individual believer, the revision modifies "body" to a more collective form in harmony with the opposing JW doctrine.
1 Corinthians 10:4
"The Rock was Christ" changed to "that rock-mass meant the Christ."
The passage depicts the preincarnate Jesus exhibiting his divine nature by being present many centuries earlier. This revision tries to conceal his eternal nature with a more figurative interpretation of "the Rock."
1 Corinthians 12:11
"As he determines" changed to "as it wills."
The NWT finds many ways to disguise the personality of the Holy Spirit. In this case the third person pronoun exercising individual conscience and will is replaced with an impersonal pronoun.
1 Corinthians 14:14-16
"Spirit" changed to "[gift of the] spirit."
Like several other Biblical passages, this one indicates the distinctive presence of the human spirit as distinguished from the mind and body. The JWs evade these distinctions and try to disguise them with related revisions.
The phrase GIFT OF THE is added in brackets five times, changing "SPIRIT" to "[GIFT OF THE] SPIRIT." The NWT elsewhere frequently paraphrases the simple word SPIRIT, especially when referring to the immaterial aspect of human nature, to avoid the implication that such a spirit has a reality distinct from the body. For instance, Heb 12:19 "the Father of spirits" (or the spirits) becomes "the Father of OUR SPIRITUAL LIFE." In Gal. 6:18 "your spirit" is paraphrased "THE SPIRIT YOU SHOW." Similar rewording's are introduced in passages where the simple translation of "spirit" or "Spirit" might imply that God's Spirit is a person, contrary to the JW's doctrine that the Holy Spirit is God's "active force." So, Jude's description of certain men as "not having the Spirit" (or more literally, not having spirit") is rendered "NOT HAVING SPIRITUALITY" (Jude 19).
1 Corinthians 15:2
"By this gospel you are saved" changed to "through which YOU are also being saved."
Similar to the Acts 16:30 revision above, this one again obscures the completeness of salvation by grace. The JW's salvation exists as an extended process ("being saved") with the outcome being uncertain until final judgment before Jehovah.
Galatians 6:18
"Your spirit" changed to "the spirit YOU [show]."
Similar to the I Cor. 14 revision above, this one attempts to obscure the reality of the individual human spirit by presenting it more as an attitude of action than an entity.
Philippians 1:23
"To depart and be with Christ" changed to "the releasing and the being with Christ."
Paul's eagerness indicates that the believer's spirit goes immediately into Christ's presence at death. The revision suggests that death and being with Christ are two separate steps in an extended process, as the JWs believe in soul sleep (i.e., the unconscious state of the human spirit awaiting the resurrection).
In Phil 1:23-24 several words are added without brackets that, along with some other changes, completely alter the structure and thereby also the meaning of the text. The passage reads in the NWT (with added words in brackets so you can see here) "I am under pressure from [THESE] two things; [BUT WHAT] I do desire is the releasing and the being with Christ, for this, [TO BE SURE], is far better." There are other errors as well, but the additions indicate here clearly change the meaning so as to avoid the test's implication that Paul would be with Christ after death. Some of the additions in brackets in the NWT so clearly change the meaning it is a wonder that more JW's don't question them? In 1Cor 14:12-16 the phrase GIFT OF THE is added in brackets five times, changing "spirit" to "[GIFT OF THE] spirit." The result is that Paul's contrast between his own personal "spirit" and his "mind" is removed. To assure that this contrast is missed, the word "MY" is also added in brackets before "MIND" twice in verse 15 but not before SPIRIT. Thus the simple contrast between "the spirit" and "the mind" (or "my spirit" and "my mind" NASB) is changed to "the [GIFT OF THE] spirit" and [MY] mind."
Phil 2:6
"Although Jesus existed in the form of God, He did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself" (He grasped equality and let it go to become a man) has been changed to "although Jesus was existing in God's form, he gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God."
NWT teaches that Jesus was never equal with God nor did he ever grasp at it. Notice the word seizure, which implies grabbing that which is not yours to grab ie equality. If Jesus was created by God, why would He be considered humble for not thinking of himself as equal to God. That is not humility, but reality! However since Jesus was equal to God, it would require great humility to give up his status as God and become a man through Mary.
Col 1:16-20
the word "[other]" has been added 5 times where it is not in the Greek
Awful embarrassing for Jw’s to read this verse with the [other] removed. Why it would mean Jesus was not a creature but God. By adding "other" to "all other things" Jw’s attempt to avoid the obvious original intent of the Greek that Jesus is above all created things implying Jesus is not a creature!
The addition of the word OTHER is usually justified by an appeal to such texts as Luke 11:41-42 and Luke 13:2,4, where the word OTHER is also added after the word ALL. However, in these passages (and in others were the same practice is rightly followed) the addition of the word OTHER doesn't change the meaning, but simply makes it read smoother. In Col 1:16-20, however, whether one adds "OTHER" makes a great deal of difference to the meaning! What is so often noticed is that the NWT does this same thing in several other passages as well (Acts 10:36; Rom 8:32; Phil 2:9). In Rom 8:32, the word OTHER is not even placed in brackets, contrary to the work's stated practice. In all of these text, the intent seems to be to undermine the implication of the text that Jesus Christ is God.
Colossians 1:19
"His fullness" changed to "fullness."
The definite Greek article (to), translated "his," indicates that Jesus shares the Father's divine nature as also shown in Col. 2:9. The revisions evade the truth by concealing the similarity of the two passages.
Also notable is Col 1:19 "because [God] saw good for all fullness to dwell in him." Here the little word THE is omitted before FULLNESS. This is significant, because NWT renders "ALL FULLNESS" is ambiguous, whereas "ALL THE FULLNESS" clearly refers to the fullness of God's own being (compare Col 2:9).
Col 2:6-12
Again, in Col 2:6-12 "IN HIM" and "IN WHOM" (en auto, en ho) becomes "IN UNION WITH HIM" (v.6) "IN HIM" (V.V. 7,9) "BY MEANS OF HIM" (V. 10) and "BY RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM" (V.V..11,12). These variations serve only JW doctrine! They have no other purpose, they undermine the unity of the passage, which is that Christian life consists solely of a supernatural relationship with God through faith in Christ. There are many other passages where IN is paraphrased to avoid the otherwise clear meaning of the text. For example, In Matt. 5:19 IN becomes "IN RELATION TO" so as to avoid the passages teaching that some who disobey the law's commandments and teach others to do so will nevertheless be accepted "in the kingdom of heaven" (which JW's believe will be restricted to the 144,000 special chosen and sanctified believers).
Colossians 2:9
"The fullness of deity" changed to "the fullness of the divine quality."
The Greek theotes, translated "deity," literally means divine essence or divinity. As the JWs reject the divine nature of Jesus, a revision is inserted to suggest that Jesus is limited to only divine-like characteristics.
I Timothy 4:1
"The Spirit" changed to "the inspired utterance."
This revision attempts to obscure the reality and activity of the Holy Spirit by representing it as a message instead of an entity. (Similar revisions found in 1 John 4:1, 3, 6 with "expression" being utilized in place of "utterance.") A straightforward "the SPIRIT says" would too obviously imply the personality of the "Spirit".
Titus 2:13
"Our great God and Savior Jesus Christ" changed to "the great God and of [the] Savior of us, Christ Jesus."
Similar to the Rom. 9:5 revision shown above, a distinct proclamation of Jesus as God is obscured by the altered text. (Similar rewording also found in 2 Peter 1:1.)
Hebrews 1:6
"But when He again brings his First-born into the inhabited earth, he says: 'And let all God's angels worship him' ." (New World Translation, 1950, 1961, 1970 editions,
The NWT revised 1971 edition was changed to read, "do obeisance to" rather than "worship". This change remains to this day, even though the original word chosen by the 4 NWT translators, was accurate to the Greek. However the Watchtower society was losing so may new converts because of the word "worship" (only God gets worshipped) that they did the typically dishonorable thing and chose the obscure unknown word "obeisance" to complete the deception of new converts.
Hebrews 1:8
"Your throne, 0 God" changed to "God is your throne."
The revision avoids addressing the Son, Jesus, as God to validate the JWs' rejection of his divine nature.
Hebrews 9:14
"The eternal Spirit" changed to "an everlasting spirit."
Similar to the Rom. 2:29 revision above, the switching of the article before the adjective represents the work of the Holy Spirit in a more indirect/ impersonal manner.
Hebrews 12:9
"Father of our spirits" changed to "Father of our spiritual life."
Similar to the I Cor. 14 revision shown above, this one tries to obscure the distinctive reality of human spirits by replacing them with a more abstract noun.
Hebrews 12:23
"The spirits of righteous men" changed to "the spiritual lives of righteous ones."
This revision represents the same noun-switching as described in Heb. 12:9 above.
Hebrews 12:28
"We are receiving a kingdom" changed to "we are to receive a kingdom."
An orthodox Christian understanding of the Kingdom recognizes it as primarily established through Jesus' victorious death, then further through post-resurrection displays of his power, and perpetually through the addition of new believers into God's family. The JWs teach that Jesus' Kingdom did not begin until his invisible return in 1914. The form of the Greek word for "receiving" (paralambano) implies a current condition, but the revision suggests a future event according to the JW doctrine.
1 Peter 1:11
"Spirit of Christ in them was pointing" changed to "the spirit in them was indicating concerning Christ."
Another example of the supernatural presence of Jesus in the life of a Christian is obscured again by this revision as the JW doctrinal view presents him as more limited.
I Peter 3:18-19
"By the Spirit, through whom" changed to "in the spirit. In this [state]."
Similar to several examples presented above, in this passage the presence and personality of the Holy Spirit is obscured with a more abstract representation of the Holy Spirit to accommodate the JW doctrine.
1 John 4:1-6
"Spirit" changed to "inspired expression"
Even clearer is 1 John 4:1-6. John has just stated that we know our union with God is secure "owing to the spirit which he gave us" (3:24). The next sentence in the NWT reads; "Beloved ones, believe not every inspired expression, but test the inspired expressions to see whether they originate with God" (4:1). One would never suspect from this rendering that "INSPIRED EXPRESSION" translates the same Greek word (pneuma) as "SPIRIT" in 3:24 (see 4:2,3,6). John's whole point is that although the Spirit's presence assures us of God's love, we are not to believe every "spirit" that claims to be from God but test each one by the teachings it prophets espouses. "Because many false prophets have gone out into the world" (4:1). The NWT obscures this point to avoid the implication that God's Spirit is a person rather than a force (just as the demonic spirits are personal entities and not impersonal forces, as the JW accept).
The same doctrinal bias can be seen in 1 Tim 4:1, where the NWT reads; However, the inspired utterance says...." A straightforward "the SPIRIT says" would too obviously imply the personality of the "Spirit".
Jude 19
"Have the Spirit" changed to "having spirituality."
Similar to Gal. 6:18 above, this revision attempts to obscure the separate presence of the Holy Spirit.
Revelation 3:14
"Ruler of God's creation" changed to "beginning of the creation by God."
The altered prepositions distract from the sovereignty of Jesus indicated in the passage and suggests that the real power of creation was accomplished through the Father, as the JWs believe that Jesus is a created being.
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ALIANNE OUSSAMEUR (Alianne)
Starlite Member
Username: Alianne
| | Posted on Sunday, August 21, 2005 - 07:53 pm: |
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Satan told the first lie and God’s Judgment Revealed His Personality
DOES the Bible refer only to one time of divine judgment? No, there have been a number of times during the course of human history in which Jehovah God rendered specific judgments. An examination of these judgments is very enlightening. It reveals a God of infinite wisdom and justice, one who cares deeply about the welfare of his intelligent creation.
We can better appreciate the reasons for Jehovah’s judgments by viewing them in the light of his purpose regarding humankind. Before the first man and woman, Adam and Eve, he set the prospect of everlasting life on earth. In Eden, he provided a beautiful home for them—a lovely garden filled with a variety of fruit trees from which they could eat to satisfaction. Informing them of his purpose, Jehovah said: “Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving upon the earth.”—Gen. 1:28.
These words, addressed to the first humans, indicate that it was Jehovah’s purpose for the whole earth to become like the garden of Eden, filled with humans doing his will and looking out for the welfare of the animal creation. Adam and Eve, however, disregarded God’s law, thereby forfeiting their privilege to share in carrying out their Maker’s marvelous purpose. How did this come about?
Using a serpent as his instrument, the invisible spirit person who later came to be known as Satan the Devil deceived Eve into thinking that disobedience to God was a means of gain. Eve fell for the lie and afterward succeeded in persuading her husband to join her in the transgression.
The rebellion of Satan and of Adam and Eve made it appear that all intelligent creatures were in reality motivated by selfishness, even though they might appear to be willingly submitting to God’s rule. This was, in fact, Satan’s contention, as is evident from what he said centuries later respecting the faithful man Job: “Everything that a man has he will give in behalf of his soul. For a change, thrust out your hand, please, and touch as far as his bone and his flesh and see whether he will not curse you to your very face.”—Job 2:4, 5.
The issue that was raised by Satan was not one that could be settled by immediately destroying him and anyone else who might thereafter express like ideas and motives. Had that been done, the question would have remained, ‘Might Satan, if given enough time, have succeeded in proving his claim?’ As long as such a question persisted, it could undermine confidence in God’s rulership toward his intelligent creation. Therefore, since the time the first humans rebelled, God’s judgments have taken into consideration the issue that had been raised as well as his original purpose for the earth and man upon it.
from the Wacthtower Library. |
ALIANNE OUSSAMEUR (Alianne)
Starlite Member
Username: Alianne
| | Posted on Friday, August 19, 2005 - 07:12 pm: |
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Michael .P (Mik3y)
Starlite Member
Username: Mik3y
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 10:00 am:
No the Church does not go against christ at all. I wonder just how much you know about the sin against the spirit etc |
Michael .P (Mik3y)
Starlite Member
Username: Mik3y
| | Posted on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 09:54 pm: |
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No Alianne i never asked that
Michael william James
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Jennifer Maxwell (Jennifer03801)
Starlite Member
Username: Jennifer03801
| | Posted on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 01:20 pm: |
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http://www.exjws.net/sexabuse/sexmain.htm |
Jennifer Maxwell (Jennifer03801)
Starlite Member
Username: Jennifer03801
| | Posted on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 11:39 pm: |
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http://www.fishthe.net/witness/jwr.htm |
ALIANNE OUSSAMEUR (Alianne)
Starlite Member
Username: Alianne
| | Posted on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 02:49 pm: |
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MICHAEL YOU WERE ASKING:
· How can we grieve God’s holy spirit, since it is not a person?
It was the apostle Paul who wrote: “Do not be grieving God’s holy spirit.” (Ephesians 4:30) Some take these words to be an indication that the holy spirit is a person. However, publications of “the faithful steward” have often provided Scriptural and historical proof that the early Christians viewed the holy spirit neither as a person nor as a god equal to the Most High as part of a so-called Trinity. (Luke 12:42) So Paul was not referring to God’s holy spirit as a person.
God’s holy spirit is his invisible active force. (Genesis 1:2) Jesus was to baptize “with holy spirit,” just as John was baptizing with water. (Luke 3:16) At Pentecost 33 C.E., some 120 disciples were “filled with holy spirit”—obviously not with a person. (Acts 1:5, 8; 2:4, 33) Such anointed ones received a heavenly hope, and God’s spirit led them in a life of faithfulness. (Romans 8:14-17; 2 Corinthians 1:22) The spirit produced godly fruitage and helped them to avoid the sinful “works of the flesh” that could result in divine disapproval.—Galatians 5:19-25.
If we are God’s servants with an earthly hope, we have not been anointed with holy spirit. Nevertheless, we can have just as much of God’s spirit as those with the heavenly hope. Hence, we too could grieve the spirit. But how?
If we were to ignore Scriptural counsel penned under the guidance of holy spirit, we could develop traits that could result in willful sin against the spirit, the loss of Jehovah’s favor, and eventual destruction. (Matthew 12:31, 32) We might not yet be sinning gravely, but we could be starting off on the wrong road, one that could eventually take us in a direction contrary to the leading of the spirit. Under such circumstances, we would be grieving the holy spirit.
How, then, can we avoid grieving God’s spirit? We certainly have to control our thoughts and actions. In his letter to the Ephesians, chapter 4, the apostle Paul spoke about avoiding tendencies toward dishonest statements, sustained wrathfulness, laziness, and unsuitable speech. If we have put on “the new personality” and yet allow ourselves to drift back toward such things, what would we be doing? We would be going against the spirit-inspired counsel of God’s Word, the Bible. By doing this, we would be grieving the holy spirit.
In Ephesians chapter 5, we read Paul’s counsel about avoiding prurient interest in fornication. The apostle also urges fellow believers to avoid shameful conduct and obscene jesting. If we do not want to grieve God’s holy spirit, we ought to bear this in mind when choosing entertainment. Why would we show interest in such things by talking about them, reading about them, and viewing their portrayal on television or elsewhere?
Of course, we could grieve the spirit in other ways. Jehovah’s spirit promotes unity in the congregation, but suppose we were to spread harmful gossip or encourage cliques in the congregation. Would we not be working against the spirit’s leadings toward unity? In a general way, we would be grieving the holy spirit, like those who caused divisions in the congregation in Corinth. (1 Corinthians 1:10; 3:1-4, 16, 17) We would also be grieving the spirit if we deliberately undermined respect for spirit-appointed men in the congregation.—Acts 20:28; Jude 8.
Clearly, then, it is wise to consider our attitude and actions in the light of what we know to be the leadings of the holy spirit as reflected in the Bible and in the Christian congregation. Let us also be “praying with holy spirit,” yielding to its influence and always acting in harmony with what is said in God’s inspired Word. (Jude 20) May it be our determination never to grieve the spirit but always to be led by it to the honor of Jehovah’s holy name.
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Michael .P (Mik3y)
Starlite Member
Username: Mik3y
| | Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 10:00 am: |
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No the Church does not go against christ at all. I wonder just how much you know about the sin against the spirit etc
I don't just claim to understand you half assed Elliot. I Understand your earning for truth because i've been there..and im not telling you whats truth because people can tell you all they like but until you find out for yourself you'll never believe. Like i said call on this God i talk about even if you don't believe ask him honestly to help you. I am not no mindless idiot with a low self esteem if anything im the complete oposite..Religion doesn't take away your true self and character..what it takes away is the lies that people have told you. I was told plenty from false speakers of the church and the outside world.. everyone wants to use you. But only one person wants to love you for eternity.
Michael william James
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Satanic Inc (Satanic_inc)
Starlite Member
Username: Satanic_inc
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 01:06 pm: |
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thank you Anita.. maybe if you speak for me people will "know" the "truth" behind me... jeez... lol thanks Anita!!
I'm shackled to this alter
sacrificed to their God
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Anita Stith Tafolla (A_r_tafolla)
Starlite Member
Username: A_r_tafolla
| | Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 11:22 pm: |
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Aliane: You have a continuing policy of not paying attention to what others say about their own faith and religious background. Elliott has stated numerous times that he was brought up in a Christian home, taught from the Bible, rejected that background. Yet you ask him if he has a Bible - which at the moment is irrelevant to him and certainly not the path to changing his opinions. I know you are sincere about changing the beliefs of those in discussion with you. The first step in that is listening to what they say from THEIR perspective, and approaching them from that.
Would you like it if I told you my own religion did not agree with what you say? That we believe sincerely that we have the truth and you are blind? That you must be baptized by the rites of my church in order to enter Heaven? I would not say these sort of things because they do not open communication between us ... they would only make you react with rote affirmations of your own beliefs.
I am NOT necessarily saying that those questions of mine are my beliefs ... what I am saying is, "Ask yourself how you would feel if I did say that? Would you listen more carefully to me, or would you stop listening to me entirely?"
"The Opposite of War isn't Peace, it's Creation."
Jonathan Larson
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ALIANNE OUSSAMEUR (Alianne)
Starlite Member
Username: Alianne
| | Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 09:35 pm: |
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sAT: A TRUE CHRISTIAN IS ONE THAT FOLLOWS THE TEACHINGS OF CHRIST. WOULD YOU LIKE TO KNOW WHAT CHRIST TAUGHT?? DO YOU HAVE A BIBLE??? I WOULD GLADLY SHOW YOU |
Satanic Inc (Satanic_inc)
Starlite Member
Username: Satanic_inc
| | Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 07:14 pm: |
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forcing people truth? not listening? dogma? Alianne.. what is a true christian? hmm? a religious @$$ kisser? (pardon the thought there but what better way to put it) a person who bows and submits to others that "know" the truth? hmm.. what is a true christian? is a true fool? a true vain person? tell us Alianne
I'm shackled to this alter
sacrificed to their God
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ALIANNE OUSSAMEUR (Alianne)
Starlite Member
Username: Alianne
| | Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 12:52 pm: |
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THE CATHOLIC CHUCH DOGMA GOES AGAINST THE TEACHINGS OF CHRIST. THEREFORE A TRUE CHRISTIAN WHO WANTS TO FOLLOW IN THE FOOTSTEPS OF CHRIST MUST CHOOSE HIS TEACHINGS AND NOT THE DOGMA OF THE CHURCH AS IT REFUTES THEM IN HER TEACHINGS.QUITE THE DELIMA!!! |
Michael .P (Mik3y)
Starlite Member
Username: Mik3y
| | Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 06:30 am: |
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Perhaps i should be more clear doctrine alone will not convert anyone to God. If a man lives his Faith, and submits to God been a channel of Gods peace and love then all will see and open their hearts and minds to the Word and love of God. Of coz if theres no doctrine at all thats another extreme they both must be used equally even; to be a true representation of what Christ stood for.
Michael william James
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ALIANNE OUSSAMEUR (Alianne)
Starlite Member
Username: Alianne
| | Posted on Sunday, August 07, 2005 - 02:16 pm: |
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MICHAEL:YOU DON'T FORCE PEOPLE TO KNOW THE TRUTH. THE ONES WHO ARE LOOKING FOR THE TRUTH WILL LISTEN AND THE ONES WHO DON'T WANT THE TRUTH, WILL WALK AWAY AND NOT LISTEN. JESUS DID THE SAME PREACHING METHOD DURING HIS MINISTRY AND HE KEPT ON PREACHING DESPITE THE FACT THAT MOST PEOPLE TURNED THEIR BACKS ON HIM INCLUDING THE CLERGY WHO HAD HIM PUT TO DEATH(THE HIGH PRIEST, SCRIBES AND PHARISEES OF THE JEWISH RELIGION). SIMILARLY TODAY,WE MUST PREACH THE WORD AS TO BE A LIVING TESTIMONY IS NOT ENOUGH FOR PEOPLE TO COME TO AN ACCURATE KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH. JESUS HIMSELF WAS A LIVING TESTIMONY BUT HE PREACHED INCESSANTLY WITH HIS APOSTLES AND SENT THE 70 OTHERS TO PREACH AS WELL.
SO THIS THOUGHT OF YOURS IS JUST NOT ENOUGH "But, what is the best way to show them? Force the word upon them, what? Jesus teaches us to be living testamonies to the Faith this is how people will know the truth When we ourselves live it Fully! "
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Michael .P (Mik3y)
Starlite Member
Username: Mik3y
| | Posted on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 11:01 pm: |
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I like this part "PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW THE TRUTH AND THE ONLY WAY IS TO SHOW THEM WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS IS TRUTH" Head on the nail Alianne. But, what is the best way to show them? Force the word upon them, what? Jesus teaches us to be living testamonies to the Faith this is how people will know the truth When we ourselves live it Fully!
No one is converted via Doctrine. People are converted when they see they are letting themselves have second best. St Augustine said something along these lines.. that men ultimately tries to do good, but this is dependant on what he thinks is the best alternative. So you see so long as man thinks sex right now is great with strangers out of marriage and multiple partners.. They don't see themselves getting second best. What needs to be explained is that God actually offers Man the chance to have the best Sex life possible. And its a fair claim! What could be greater then having sex with someone who is not going to leave you at the end of the night, someone who is not going to be with other partners while with you etc.
What better way to prove this then have just that a loving marriage with a great sex life. Of course a great sex life in Gods eyes isnt what the magazines etc say it is today.
Michael william James
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ALIANNE OUSSAMEUR (Alianne)
Starlite Member
Username: Alianne
| | Posted on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 09:26 am: |
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MICHAEL:PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW THE TRUTH AND THE ONLY WAY IS TO SHOW THEM WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS IS TRUTH. PEOPLE ARE JUDGED BY GOD'S WORD THE WAY THEY ACCEPT IT'S TEACHINGS AND THE WAY THEY CONFORM THEIR LIVES TO IT'S TEACHINGS. TRUE CHRISTIANS ARE COMISSIONED TO TEACH PEOPLE THE GOOD NEWS OF THE KINGDOM WHICH IS BEING DONE WORLDWIDE TODAY.IN TELLING PEOPLE THE GOOD NEWS ONE TEACHES THE BIBLE AND THE FALSE HOOD OF ALL OTHER RELIGIONS SO THAT THEY MAY KNOW THE PROPER WAY TO WORSHIP GOD AS HE WANTS MEN TO WORSHIP HIM. THERE IS NO OTHER WAY FOR PEOPLE TO GET ACCURATE KNOWLEDGE AND EVERLASTING LIFE. |
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