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Scott Whitmore (Emhotep)
Starlite Member
Username: Emhotep
| | Posted on Monday, November 07, 2005 - 05:57 am: | 
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This
goes out to You Zaheer if Your still here and I pray safe after the Quake:
God kindles the fire of love in the hearts of the chosen, so that their carnal selves are consumed. Once ignited the fire of longing never dies. That is the flame about which the Prophet said, "When God wills the good of his servant, He kindles a light of faith in his heart."
When they asked him what were the signs of that fire, he replied, "Deviation from the abode of vanity; progression toward the Eternal."
-Abu Sa'id, "Rabi'a the Mystic"
That comes from a Muslim Site which has a Daily
Reading out of the Koran.
Scott
zanthor2691@aol.com
 }
" If You Don't Stand For Something,
You Will Fail At Everything."
Wm. Scott Whitmore aka ~ Em~Hotep ~
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zaheer - uddin (Zaheer)
Starlite Member
Username: Zaheer
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 06, 2005 - 09:02 pm: |
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For scientific data in the Quran click
http://www.islamicity.com/science/
http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/Books/MB_BQS/default.htm
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zaheer - uddin (Zaheer)
Starlite Member
Username: Zaheer
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 06, 2005 - 08:17 pm: |
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Is there evidence in the Quran, which would lead to the conclusion that the Quran has come from a higher power than man?"
http://www.examinethetruth.com/ahmed-giron.htm |
Michael .P (Mik3y)
Starlite Member
Username: Mik3y
| | Posted on Monday, August 29, 2005 - 07:36 am: |
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It actually is in the Bible Alianne.. God clearly says to Peter he gives him authority and builds the first church.
Michael william James
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ALIANNE OUSSAMEUR (Alianne)
Starlite Member
Username: Alianne
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 23, 2005 - 11:29 pm: |
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MICHAELYOU POSTED:"Thats Because Papacy came after the first churches made by Peter"
Peter was dead some time before the last book of the Bible was written by John. Sooo why was it that the Papacy or that Peter being the first Pope were never mentionned in the Bible. That would have been quite an oversight seeing that being a Pope is such a big deal don't you think??? |
Michael .P (Mik3y)
Starlite Member
Username: Mik3y
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 23, 2005 - 08:49 pm: |
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Thats Because Papacy came after the first churches made by Peter etc The New Testament only really relates to Jesus's time with some important additions i.e St pauls letters, revelations etc But i don't see what this has to do with Jw's when there book was made years later by men and edited by men also just like the kjv.
Michael william James
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ALIANNE OUSSAMEUR (Alianne)
Starlite Member
Username: Alianne
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 23, 2005 - 11:19 am: |
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I am referring to the Papacy, not the Church of God in the Bible. You will find nothing about Papacy in the Bible. |
Michael .P (Mik3y)
Starlite Member
Username: Mik3y
| | Posted on Monday, August 22, 2005 - 09:50 pm: |
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Thats because the first church was not made in Rome.
Michael william James
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ALIANNE OUSSAMEUR (Alianne)
Starlite Member
Username: Alianne
| | Posted on Monday, August 22, 2005 - 04:15 pm: |
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MICHAEL: The true Witness that we have to this day is God's word the Bible and it tells us that before Peter's death, he was nowhere near Rome and his ministry lead him to Babylon to the Jews. Whereas Paul was comissioned to preach to the "Nations-Gentiles" and he was in Rome and a Roman citizen at that. |
Michael .P (Mik3y)
Starlite Member
Username: Mik3y
| | Posted on Sunday, August 21, 2005 - 09:59 pm: |
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Can not provide the entire hostoric reference to the link.. Do you know why this is? Obivously not.. Tis because the word Was passed on merely by men..can we go back and prove Jesus said to his disciples what he did.. Not really, theres no tape recorder or witness alive today. History was not written down but passed by word of mouth through stories etc. Hence, why the Catholic church relies heavily on the tradition which was passed on by God! Something the WatchTower has nothing of by the way. Nor do they have an original text but one mixed of lots of others and maybe even harmful personal opinions
Michael william James
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zaheer - uddin (Zaheer)
Starlite Member
Username: Zaheer
| | Posted on Sunday, August 21, 2005 - 09:08 pm: |
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i would really appreciate it if you'd explain me what do verses quoted by me exactly mean if they differ from their apparent meaning would you also explain why channing also came to the same conclusion that atonement is not only unscriptual but also irrational--- additionally would you please explain what does it mean when the bible explicitly sats that revelations only come from GodG. od says, in passages such as Num. 12:6, Deut. 18:20 and Ez. 13:8,9 that revelations come ONLY from Him
There is no passage in the bible in which we are told that the son of man is infinite and needs an infinite atonement .This doctrine teaches us that man although created by God , a frail erring and imperfect being is regarded by the creator as an infinite offender Channinng stated that God can forgive sin without this rigid expedient This doctrine which talks of God becomming a victim and a sacrifice for his own rebellious subjects is as irrational as it is unscriptual .Atonement should be made TO God and not BY God. if infinite atonement was necessary which only God can make so , then God must become a sufferer and must take upon himself our pain and woe, a thought which the mind cannot concieve. to escape this difficulty we are told that Christ suffered as man and not as God. But if man only suffered for a short and limited period then what was the necessity of infinite atonement'?----
(Willian Ellery channing(1780-1842)
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ALIANNE OUSSAMEUR (Alianne)
Starlite Member
Username: Alianne
| | Posted on Sunday, August 21, 2005 - 07:18 pm: |
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Zaheer: I enjoyed reading your posting and I certainly can understand all of your questions, especially from the viewpoint of a Muslim(correct me please,if wrong)as it must be terribly confusing trying to understand the Bible, true Christianity and the teachings of Christendom along with the bias of your own religious upbringing. I know how confusing it was for me, but I was determined to get to the bottom of all these lies no matter what and despite the fact that I was told that I was going straight to Hell for doing so. That was most frightening to me.
Causing "Confusion" by the many religious lies (teachings) is just what Satan has been doing all these centuries since the fall of Adam and Eve. What better way for this Adversary to prevent people from coming to an accurate knowledge of the true God. What Satan has done is to hide the true religion amongts the false so that man does not come to worship the CREATOR in an approved way.It reminds me of a question that a friend asked me when I first began my search. She said: If I gave you a blade of grass where would be the best place in the world to hide it???
It has taken me many years of diligent study, and much prayer to my Creator to find the many answers to the same torturous questionning that I experienced such as yours. I have never regretted this tumultuous search. I finally have found the answers and peace in the truth. You can too, if that is what you want.
Our Creator is a God of love and He is there for those who are earnestly seaking for Him. He knows the heart of man and there is no deceving Him and with His Help the truth can always be found. |
zaheer - uddin (Zaheer)
Starlite Member
Username: Zaheer
| | Posted on Sunday, August 21, 2005 - 02:18 pm: |
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Jesus sought only to take the Jews from their emphasis on ritual back to that of righteousness (Mat. 6:1-8) Paul of Tarsus For the origin of the doctrine of atonement, one does not go to the teachings of Jesus, but instead to the words of Paul, the true founder of Christianity; in teachings of present Christian terms and practices. Like many Jews, Paul had no use for the teachings of Jesus, and he himself persecuted the followers of Jesus for their unorthodox beliefs. This zealous persecutor was turned into an ardent preacher, however, through a sudden conversion around 35 CE Paul claimed that a resurrected Jesus appeared to him in a vision, thereby, choosing Paul as his instrument for carrying his teachings to the Gentiles (Gal. 1:11; 12:15,16). Paul's credibility in any capacity is questionable, however, when considering that: (1) there are four contradictory versions of his so-called 'conversion' (Acts 9:3-8; 22:6-10; 26:13-18; Gal. 1:15-17); (2) God says, in passages such as Num. 12:6, Deut. 18:20 and Ez. 13:8,9 that revelations come ONLY from Him, and (3) accounts of numerous disagreements between the other disciples and Paul regarding his teachings are recorded in Acts. Experience and observation had taught Paul that preaching among the Jews was not feasible; he, therefore, chose to go to the non-Jews. By doing so, however, Paul disregarded a direct command from Jesus against preaching to other than a Jew (Mat. 10:5,6). In short, Paul set aside the actual teachings of Jesus in his desire to be a success. The Pagan Influence Among the pagans of Paul's time, a wide variety of gods existed. Although these gods had different names and were embraced by people from different areas of the world -- Adonis from Syria, Dionysus from Thrace, Attis from Phrygia, for instance -- the basic concept in each cult was the same: these sons of gods died violent deaths and then rose again to save their people. Since the pagans had tangible savior-gods in their old religions, they wanted nothing less from the new; they were not able to accept any sort of an invisible Deity. Paul was quite accommodating, preaching therefore of a savior named Jesus Christ, the son of God, who died and then rose again to save mankind from sin (Rom. 5:8-11; 6:8,9). The Bible itself points out the error of Paul's thinking. While each of the four gospels contain an account of the crucifixion of Jesus, these accounts are strictly hearsay; none of the disciples of Jesus were witness to such, having fled his side in the Garden (Mark 14:50). In the Torah, God says that one who is 'hanged upon a tree' --crucified-- is 'accursed' (Deut. 21:23). Paul side-stepped this by saying that Jesus became accursed in order to take on the sins of man (Gal. 3:13); in so doing, however, Paul set aside the very Law of God. The resurrection, wherein Paul says that Jesus 'conquered' death and sin for mankind (Rom. 6:9,10), plays such an important part that one who does not believe in it is not considered a good Christian (I Cor. 15:14). Here, too, the Bible lends little support to Paul's notions; first of all, not only was there no eyewitness to the actual resurrection, but all post-resurrection accounts are in contradiction with each other as to who went to the gravesite, what happened there, and even where and to whom Jesus appeared (Mat. 28; Mark 16; Luke 24; John 20). Secondly, although Christianity states that the body following resurrection will be in a spiritual form (I Cor. 15:44), Jesus had obviously not changed, for he both ate with his disciples (Luke 24:30,41-43), and allowed them to touch his wounds (John 20:27). Finally, as the divine son of God in Christianity, Jesus is said to share in God's attributes; one cannot fail to wonder, however, just how it can be possible for God to die... In his desire to win souls among the pagans, Paul simply reworked a number of major pagan beliefs to come up with the Christian scheme of salvation. No prophet-- including Jesus himself--taught such concepts; they were authored entirely by Paul. |
ALIANNE OUSSAMEUR (Alianne)
Starlite Member
Username: Alianne
| | Posted on Sunday, August 21, 2005 - 11:37 am: |
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Jennifer: I have used 5 translations that agree with NWT |
Jennifer Maxwell (Jennifer03801)
Starlite Member
Username: Jennifer03801
| | Posted on Saturday, August 20, 2005 - 09:11 pm: |
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Bad Translations of the Jehovah's Witness Bible,
the New World Translation (NWT).
Gen. 1:1-2 - "In [the] beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
Now the earth proved to be formless and waste and there was darkness upon the surface of [the] watery deep; and God's active force was moving to and fro over the surface of the waters." (New World Translation, Emphasis added)
The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society denies that the Holy Spirit is alive, third person of the Trinity. Therefore, they have changed the correct translation of "...the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters," to say "...and God's active force was moving to and fro over the surface of the waters."
Zech. 12:10 - In this verse God is speaking and says "And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son" (Zech. 12:10, NASB).
The Jehovah's Witnesses change the word "me" to "the one" so that it says in their Bible, "...they will look upon the one whom they have pierced..."
Since the Jehovah's Witnesses deny that Jesus is God in flesh, then Zech. 12:10 would present obvious problems--so they changed it.
John 1:1 - They mistranslate the verse as "a god." Again it is because they deny who Jesus is and must change the Bible to make it agree with their theology. The Jehovah's Witness version is this: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god."
Col. 1:15-17 - The word "other" is inserted 4 times. It is not in the original Greek, nor is it implied. This is a section where Jesus is described as being the creator of all things.
Since the Jehovah's Witness organization believes that Jesus is created, they have inserted the word "other" to show that Jesus was before all "other" things, implying that He is created.
There are two Greek words for "other": heteros, and allos. The first means another of a different kind, and the second means another of the same kind. Neither is used at all in this section of scripture. The Jehovah's Witness have changed the Bible to make it fit their aberrant theology.
Heb. 1:6 - In this verse they translate the Greek word for worship, proskuneo, as "obeisance." Obeisance is a word that means to honor, show respect, even bow down before someone. Since Jesus, to them, is created, then he cannot be worshiped. They have also done this in other verses concerning Jesus, i.e., Matt. 2:2,11; 14:33; 28:9.
Heb. 1:8 - This is a verse where God the Father is calling Jesus God: "But about the Son he says, ‘Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.'" Since the Jehovah's Witnesses don't agree with that they have changed the Bible, yet again, to agree with their theology. They have translated the verse as "...God is your throne..." The problem with the Jehovah's Witness translation is that this verse is a quote from Psalm 45:6 which, from the Hebrew, can only be translated as "...Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever; a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom." To justify their New Testament translation they actually changed the OT verse to agree with their theology, too!
The NWT translation is not a good translation. It has changed the text to suit its own theological bias in many places.
http://www.carm.org/jw/nwt.htm
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ALIANNE OUSSAMEUR (Alianne)
Starlite Member
Username: Alianne
| | Posted on Saturday, August 20, 2005 - 08:54 pm: |
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THE WHY???
Timothy warned us (1 Timothy 4:1)" the inspired utterance says definitely that in later periods of time some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired utterances and teachings of demons"
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zaheer - uddin (Zaheer)
Starlite Member
Username: Zaheer
| | Posted on Saturday, August 20, 2005 - 02:09 pm: |
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Michael i had wriiten a poem a while ago regarding the topic under
WHY TRUTH WAS SACRIFICED
Jesus believed in a single God
While Paul believed in three
Why all believe in the ways of Paul
And not the word of Jesus Christ
Why Jesus did not say trinity
While he lived under the sun
No father, no son , no Holy Ghost
All he preached was one ----
Never said that he was God
Not even the Son of God
The bible shall attest the fact
The truth is still intact
God alone he worshipped
And sought his will divine
To heal the lepers and the blind
To breathe life in a bird of clay ----
Paul was no messenger
Not even a disciple
Had never met Jesus in life
was never close to him
Paul originally named Saul
Was on the contrary
A persecutor of the men who lived
The life that Jesus preached ---
Why Jesus should appoint a man
Who persecuted his own
And not his trusted men of faith
To carry forward the light ----
Why Jesus in a vision
Would order a division
Why God was Changed from one to three
Or was it Paul’ s invention ----
Revelations come from God alone
this is the law of God
how then can we believe in Paul
who claimed the opposite--
Why Constantine was appeased
And truth was sacrificed
Why God was changed from one to three
Jesus from man to God
Why truth divine was compromised
At the council of Nicea ----
The strict command of God is to
invoke none save him
all prayers all forms of worship
are directed to him not Christ -----
True invocation is one that which
In spirit and in truth
Is paid to none but God alone
Jesus affirmed the same----
Why Abraham, Moses, Jesus Christ
Mohammad who followed them
Worshipped a Single God alone
Not three but only one ----
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Jennifer Maxwell (Jennifer03801)
Starlite Member
Username: Jennifer03801
| | Posted on Friday, August 19, 2005 - 10:35 pm: |
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"in an effort to undermine the claimed authority of the Catholic Church, Jehovah's Witnesses are encouraged to ask the following question:
Has an unbroken line of successors been traced from Peter to modern day popes? (pg.41)
While putting the Catholic on the defense to provide such "an unbroken line of successors" Jehovah's Witnesses are unwittingly asking Catholics to provide the exact same evidence they cannot furnish concerning their historic understanding of the "faithful and discrete slave."
http://www.towerwatch.com/articles/slave.htm
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ALIANNE OUSSAMEUR (Alianne)
Starlite Member
Username: Alianne
| | Posted on Friday, August 19, 2005 - 11:53 am: |
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Has an unbroken line of successors been traced from Peter to modern-day popes?
Jesuit John McKenzie, when professor of theology at Notre Dame, wrote: “Historical evidence does not exist for the entire chain of succession of church authority.”—The Roman Catholic Church (New York, 1969), p. 4.
The New Catholic Encyclopedia admits: “ . . . the scarcity of documents leaves much that is obscure about the early development of the episcopate . . . ”—(1967), Vol. I, p. 696. |
Michael .P (Mik3y)
Starlite Member
Username: Mik3y
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 09:26 pm: |
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"after the break in (the series of) our apostles"
There was no break in the apostles Zaheer, The Church still has at its head an Apostle of God. A direct link from Jesus to Peter to the popes and bishops of the ages. No break in Apostles at all.
Michael william James
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zaheer - uddin (Zaheer)
Starlite Member
Username: Zaheer
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 05:35 pm: |
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The Quran states in the following verses that this message is the culmination of the teachings of all the prophets
In the name of Allah, Most Gracious. Most Merciful
. O People of the Book! Now hath come unto you, making (things) clear unto you, Our Messenger, after the break in (the series of) our apostles, lest ye should say: 'There came unto us no bringer of glad tidings and no warner (from evil)': But now hath come unto you a bringer of glad tidings and a warner (from evil). And Allah hath power over all things.
( The Quran Chapter 5 Verse 19)
. And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said: 'O Children of Israel! I am the apostle of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me, and giving Glad Tidings of an Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad.' But when he came to them with Clear Signs, they said, 'this is evident sorcery!' ( The Quran Chapter 61 Verse 6)
'Say ye: 'We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes (of the Children of Israel), And that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) Prophets from their Lord: We make no difference between one and another of them: And we bow to Allah (in Islam).' ' (the Holy Quran 2:136). The
'It was the same religion preached by all the earlier prophets.' (the Holy Quran 42:13).
For a translation of the holy Quran click
http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/SURAI.HTM
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Michael .P (Mik3y)
Starlite Member
Username: Mik3y
| | Posted on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 09:29 pm: |
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Ahh but then you forget Jesus's first miracle..for that woman was not of the chosen people. The Lord healed her purely because she had faith. And throughout the Bible this limited image changes from the chosen people to everyone who accepts God and lives his commandments. Also Jesus said there would be no more prophets after him.
I still don't understand your logic in using pauls letters to timothy to explain a lack of holiness and obediance to God in the Church. Paul was a man of the church he was not speaking ill of the church in a bad light at all.
Michael william James
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ALIANNE OUSSAMEUR (Alianne)
Starlite Member
Username: Alianne
| | Posted on Saturday, August 13, 2005 - 10:14 pm: |
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ZAHEER: IN RESPONSE TO YOUR POSTING BELOW: THE HEBREW SCRIPTURES SAY THAT THE SABBATH WAS ONLY FOR THE ISRAELITES , THE CHOSEN PEOPLE OF GOD IN REMEMBERANCE OF THEIR DELIVERY OUT OF EGYPT NOT ANYONE ELSE.
The Sabbath Abrogated
[16:124] The Sabbath was decreed only
for those who ended up disputing it (Jews &
Christians) |
zaheer - uddin (Zaheer)
Starlite Member
Username: Zaheer
| | Posted on Saturday, August 13, 2005 - 01:43 pm: |
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yes the Muslims believe in the true teahings of Moses and Jesus; the basic teachings of all the Prophets were " To worship God without ascribing any partners to him" this was the message of all the Prophets . The Quran is the culmination of the teacings of all the prophets below you would find verses of the Quran containing all the commandments
The Ten Commandments
(Exodus 12: 1-17 & Deuteronomy 5: 6-21) Confirmation in the Quran
(Chapter: Verse)
1. Thou shall not take any
God except one God. 1. "There is no other god
beside GOD,"(47:19)
2. Thou shall make no
image of God. 2. There is nothing that
equals (like) Him. (42:11)
"My Lord, make this a peaceful
land, and protect me and my
children from worshiping idols.
(14:35)
3. Thou shall not use
God's name in vain. 3. Do not subject GOD's name
to your casual swearing, that
you may appear righteous, pious,
or to attain credibility
among the people. (2:224)
4. Thou shall honor thy
mother and father. 4. .....and your parents shall be
honored. As long as one or
both of them live, you shall
never say to them, "Uff"
(the slightest gesture of annoyance),
nor shall you shout at them; you
shall treat them amicably. (17:23)
5. Thou shall not steal. 5. The thief, male or female, you
shall mark their hands as
a punishment for their crime, and
to serve as an example from GOD.
GOD is Almighty, Most Wise.
(5:38 - 39)
6. Thou shall not lie or give
false testimony. 6. ...... incur GOD's condemnation
upon him, if he was lying. (24:7)
Do not withhold any testimony
by concealing what you had
witnessed. Anyone who withholds
a testimony is sinful at heart. (2:283)
7. Thou shall not kill. 7. ....anyone who murders any person
who had not committed murder or
horrendous crimes, it shall be as if he
murdered all the people. (5:32)
8. Thou shall not commit adultery. 8. You shall not commit adultery;
it is a gross sin, and an evil behavior.
(17:32)
9. Thou shall not covet thy neighbors
wife or possessions. 9, You shall regard the parents, the
relatives, the orphans, the poor, the
related neighbor, the unrelated neighbor,
the close associate, the traveling alien,
and your servants. (4:36)
10. Thou shall keep the Sabbath holy. The Sabbath was relinquished with the
revelation of the Quran.
The Sabbath Abrogated
[16:124] The Sabbath was decreed only
for those who ended up disputing it (Jews &
Christians). Your Lord is the One who will
judge them on the Day of Resurrection
regarding their disputes.
God, however, ordered us to make every
effort and drop all businesses to attend the
congregational (Friday) prayer. The Submitters
may tend to their business during the rest of
the day.
10. O you who believe, when the
Congregational Prayer (Salat
Al-Jumu`ah) is announced on Friday,
you shall hasten to the commemoration
of GOD, and drop all business. . (62:9)
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