|Posted on Monday, August 29, 2005 - 07:35 pm: ||
You are entitled to agree to disagree with the manner in which we have decided to handle the current problem we were having with this portion of the Starlite. Please remember that we did not take the option that would totally stop all discussion of spiritual matters. That option was to simply remove this portion of the discussion board. It was actually the easiest one.
We had to do something. And this is not about censorship. Nor is it about freedom of speach. We are certainly not putting limits on what can be discussed. You missed my point, if you took it as such.
It is about being civil to one another in a public place at which people come to gather together. In our living rooms, we have the right to rant and rave all we want at the top of our lungs. But when we enter, as guests, into a place provided to us by others (for free), we need to accept a simple call for civility.
And the no posting long texts and scriptures. That is system and money problem. This portion of the Starlite is beginning to take up too much space on our server. This means that we need to pay more for storage. The main purpose of this site is for the posting of poetry. This part of the forum has to take a second place to that. And because of such, we need to call for an end or at the very least, limited us of such.
Thank you for you input! As always, it is important to me!
|Posted on Monday, August 29, 2005 - 11:35 am: ||
I'm a huge fan, and I think that you are an excellent administrator and I really do respect the great amount of work and consideraiton that you constantly put into making this site such a good one.
However, I'm afraid that I completely disagree with the way inwhich this particular matter in the Spiritual forums has been dealt with.
When people discuss matters, they must do so knowing and accepting the face that the entire point of discussion is to exchange and to encounter viewpoints that are contrary to their own.
When this happens (as it surely does in every worthwhile discussion) very often the conflicting viewpoints will cause argument- especially when the topic is one as controversial as Spirituality.
I believe wholly and absolutely in a human's right to freedom of speech. any attempt that is made to curtail or repress my opinions and my views I will percieve as both offensive and pointless.
Now, this is not to say that I believe that views which are racist, sexist or blindly offensive should be allowed to be paraded around on the forums. Respect for one another (including one another's heritage and sex, etc, ie- things that we have no control over) is hugely important.
However, when we get past those basic standards that are inexcusable to violate, we enter the realm where I believe moderaiton and censorship are redundant.
I am an arrogant and opinionated young woman (my dad's been telling me so ever since i was 4) and to be frank, I am perfectly happy that way. I daresay that I am filled to the brim with the pride that you speak of- but this doesn't worry me. I am prepared to take that pride in what i think and to defend it. i will argue for hours if anyone will let me and I am definately by some standards pretty intolerant.
There is no way that I can ever persuade the world to agree with my beliefs, my opinions and my views- but the day that hell freezes over is the day that I apologize for tihnking what I do. I don't tihnk that I will ever buy into a "no one will be right, no one will be wrong' viewpoint. it just makes no sense to me.
If people come onto the spirituality board, they need to understand that there is no garuantee that people will bow and apologize everytime a disagreement arrises. They must accept that arguments happen, but more importantly that this isn't automatically a negative thing.
I don't give about what people tihnk of my beliefs. my beliefs are my own and they were chosen by me. Although it would definately be offensive to be insulted about your race, your sexuality or your gender (or any other pre-concieved prejudices that are held by people) I am not even slightly offended when someone bad mouthes my religion and beliefs.I will tihnk that they are wrong, misguided and perhaps unintelligent- but not offensive. to find this offensive would just be so pointless. I would still talk to them, and I would still respect them, and would NEVER decide that their comments should be deleted. they are just as entitled to express their ideas as I am.
Words are merely words. People will come here and talk, sometimes incessantly. But people need not listen if they aren't inclined. What someone says cannot hurt you unless you allow it. this leads me to think that people who are allowing their feeling to be hurt on this board are looking for the toruble. This is why I believe that, setting aside comments that could in anyway be construed as racist/sexist/homophobic or prejudiced (For these are things that cannot be changed by a person), there should not be boundaries on what one is allowed to express neither here, or anywhere else.
I am freezing and losing my way, I don't want another map of your head, Yeah. -Muse
Michael .P (Mik3y)
|Posted on Monday, August 29, 2005 - 01:38 am: ||
Thankyou Tess, i completely agree
Michael william James
SkyBrush (A.D. Hilliard) (Skybrush)
|Posted on Saturday, August 27, 2005 - 10:48 am: ||
From a very concerned Christian that basically refuses to post in the religious forums. The duty of all should be to draw nearer through compassion, not chase away forever. When He knocks at the door, you chouse to intercede with your concept of truth (you are entitled to your views but not entitled to belittling mine). This mannerism in which a very few or one for that matter has barred the door to some, possibly has influenced them to never listen for the knocking, knowing you will speak in their behalf …A sarcastic well done to you.
SkyBrush (A.D. Hilliard)
In the sweetness of friendship let there be laughter, and sharing of pleasures. For in the dew of little things the heart finds its morning and is refreshed.
Scott Whitmore (Emhotep)
|Posted on Saturday, August 27, 2005 - 01:49 am: ||
AMEN TO THAT TESS, GOD BLESS THY WISDOM TO STEP UP
AND TAKE THIS STANCE. For This I Praise Ye Homage.
REMEMBER PEOPLE, WE HAVE BUT " 1 " WORLD THAT WE
ALL MUST SHARE.
I want to
say that I am SORRY to have offened
anyone with any of my DAILY SCRIPTURE posting. I
just wished to share them with my Family
here at The StarLight Cafe, PLEASE FORGIVE MY STUPIDITY.
Ona Gwe, Waki
Wm Scott Whitmore
|Posted on Friday, August 26, 2005 - 08:43 pm: ||
For all who post in the spirtual forum of the Starlite, there will be a few new rules.
The spirtual discussion forum is one that is quite personal. We will respect the opinons of others when posting in this part of the forum. We will not post page after page of scripture and articles in response to a post by another. We will discuss. On a personal level. No one will be right. No one will be wrong. Only those who post legitmate and original poetry at this site are allowed to participate.
We have had a bit too much pride of spirit being shown at this part of the site. To the degree that people email me and tell me they are afraid to even say anything at all in this part of the site for fear of attack or being simply blown off.
The Starlite Cafe is not a Christian site. Rather, it is brought to you by people of the Jewish and Christian faith. We are most open to the discussion of any faith at this site. We are very open minded people.
But we will not allow what has been taking place in this part of the forum to continue. If it does, despite our words of warning, we will discontinue this part of the forum.
And for any of you who don't understand by what I mean pride of spirit, I will break my own rule and post this text from Bible dot com. If any of these things ring a bell for you, well, it is time for some personal time with your god.
I thank all of you have behaved most decently in this part of the site!
Signs of Pride
1. Insecurity. Research reveals clergy as one of the most insecure of all professional groups. Insecurity is the root of many unhealthy and ungodly behaviors. It provokes us to want the lavish praise and attention of others too much. Much of pride is motivated out of one’s unmet need for self-worth. Finding one’s identity and security in Christ is a must to avoid pride.
2. The need to be right. Ever encounter someone who has a hard time being wrong? This is a symptom of pride. The need to be right prevents one from appropriately evaluating issues as well as themselves (Galatians 6:3). A person who needs to be right has an exalted investment in himself or herself and thinks that he/she knows better than others. In religious circles, the need to be right is frequently manifest through always saying ‘God told me’ or ‘God showed me’.
3. Being argumentative. Individuals, who argue their point of view, especially to those in authority over them, are allowing pride to get the best of them. At the root of their argument is a belief that they are right and the other is wrong and that their will should prevail. It is appropriate to advocate for a point of view or position but not to do so in such a manner that you are more invested in your opinion than in arriving at a mutual understanding.
4. More invested in being heard than in hearing. When someone develops a pattern of needing others to listen to them rather than first hearing others, pride is motivating the need. The need to be heard is common among clergy who are insecure. Oftentimes, the individual does not feel loved or valued unless people "hear them out." In truth, this is often just an expression of insecurity and pride.
5. Anger. Anger is a self-justifying emotion. This means that the nature of anger is to prompt us to justify our position and blame another for the wrongdoing. Justification of self leads to denial of our own complicity or wrongdoing. The scripture warns that the "anger of man does not accomplish the righteousness of God." (James 1:20). An individual who is angry a lot is suffering from pride.
6. Irritability and impatience. Even though I am a counselor, it was only recently that I learned that the root of impatience in my life is anger and therefore pride. When we are unable to be patient with another and are irritated, it demonstrates a haughty view of self. We feel that our views, time or needs are more important that the other persons. This again is more an indication of our pride than someone else’s slow movement or imperfection.
7. Lack of submissive attitude. Submission is the voluntary placement of oneself under the influence, control or authority of another. When an individual pledges their submission to you or another, yet is critical or argumentative of that authority, then pride is the hidden issue. The test of humility and submission is being able to say ‘yes’, maintain a positive attitude and trust God, especially when the decision of your authority goes against your grain or better judgment.
8. Not easily corrected. Ever work or live with someone who won’t receive any negative or corrective feedback? This too is pride. Before he died, a pastor in the East Valley was noted for being easily entreated and able to receive corrective feedback from others. He would thank the person for the negative feedback and commit to pray about it, seek counsel and get back to the person with what conclusions he came to. He was a role model for many of us.
9. Receiving correction but not changing. I worked with a man who often would receive my correction and say thank you for the feedback, but would never change. This too is a form of pride. The individual was placating me and people-pleasing me, telling me what I wanted to hear but not really taking the feedback to heart. His insecurity and fear prevented him from truly changing.
10. Needing others to take your advice. Counselors, such as myself, easily fall into the trap of having to have others take their advice. Advice should always be offered without strings attached. If you find yourself resenting the fact that your advice is not followed, look deeper at the motivating issues in your life.
11. Needing to proclaim your title or degrees. A good friend of mine requires everyone to call him ‘pastor’, saying that he has deservedly earned the title. Demanding that others call you ‘doctor’ or ‘pastor’ or ‘bishop’ is usually a way of making you ‘one up’ and them ‘one down’. Once again, pride is fueling the requirement.
12. Being stubborn. Webster’s dictionary defines stubbornness as "unduly determined to exert one’s own will, not easily persuaded and difficult to handle or work, resistant." The root issue of stubbornness is willfulness, which is ‘I want what I want when I want it’. Another name for pride.
13. Comparisons and competition. 2 Corinthians 10:12 makes it clear that comparing oneself with others is unwise. Comparison is a form of competition. It is often overt. For example, emphasizing the size of one’s church, the number of converts, etc. However, it can also be the subtle sin of heart that inwardly grieves when another is more successful or rejoices when another pastor’s ministry enters hard times. The motive of heart is pride.