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| The Pope and the Virgin Mary |
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Michael .P (Mik3y)
Starlite Member
Username: Mik3y
| | Posted on Sunday, September 18, 2005 - 01:17 am: | 
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Stuart do you honestly believe if the Pope sold his robes and everything else which isnt his by the way.......that poverty would end? Poverty is man made and it is definitely not made by the Pope. You have alot of theories about the Pope been the Devil..But surely while the devil would decieve he would be doing something evil, yes? So what actions do you know of that show the Pope as the evil being you imply he is?
It sounds very doomsday like to say this world is hopeless and we need Christ to save us here on earth in flesh again. Plenty of people have proved that life is not over, christ has saved us and many are still being saved.
While it is true that we die..it is not true that we are dead in heaven! We will die, and then we are raised from our Graves to heaven. There are no Dead people in heaven.
As for drawing stuff specificaly from your post trophy boy, i wasn't. I was speaking about the general attitude society has towards such things today. Plenty of people will tell you live life to the fullest, do something with your life, make it worth your time, don't waste away etc. What they won't tell you is how to do this! And when they do tell you, just what authority do they have to tell you whats the most fulfilling way to live your life. The church will be bold enough to tell its Body [people of the church] how to live their lives..with Gods authority of course. If i do come across something they teach that i don't agree with i will be the first to question the Church, but thats just it isn't it i havent 
As for The Church destroying your family, i doubt that is true at all. Often it is because of those who are in the church who remain idle. I have a fair bit of knowledge when it comes to the Catholic church, and i know a fair bit about other christian denonimations and other religions.. I can't think of any that encourage or inspire the destruction of Families. As for putting God before family and anyone else..this is only partly true. See we believe that we were all made in Gods image and likeness, hence why we must love and respect each other as we would God. If we say hurtful things or strike out at anyone we are striking out and hurting God.
I see plenty of Good people today religious and not, nothing seperates their intentions we all strive to do good. If your going to suggest the possibility of the Pope being the devils advocate it would be helpful if you could give reasons as to how and why and what the Pope has done to show this.
Also thanks for the discussion i enjoy talking about my own spiritual life and reading about others..though this has kind of gone on to doctrine lol But thats okay everyone just wants to know the truth..and if i do know any truth i'll share it with you here ;)
Michael william James
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Stuart Chugg (Antipodi)
Starlite Member
Username: Antipodi
| | Posted on Saturday, September 17, 2005 - 10:35 am: |
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Trophy Boy ..I think you have read things wrong and if you are a father you might understand better the love of God ..The Bible teaches that we Love God as we Love our family after all he is our father and he loves us. By the way I am sure that partying goes on in heaven especially when individuals see the light, it doesnt stop me from partying and friendship is much more important to me. One thing that actually turned me back to religion was the way that things are these days in this world being unfaithful and screwing anything with two legs,of the hatred towards others because they are different and sometimes more. As for the many abandoned children because of drug induced parents , the hatred because of wars fought in the name of oil. The divorce rate is at such high level one child boasted to my son he had five fathers.How can he really know what love is. No My friend this world is cold , callous and hateful place to be at the moment. We need an example like Christ to show us another way. he also is documented as attending parties in the Bible by the way. Fun is made by yourself and noone else can have fun for you. Happiness is a fullfillment that reaches deep into the soul and comes from true and credible knowledge of God. You are right many religions split people apart and that is exactly why I argue the point on the actions and doctrines of major religions because too many lies and deciets are part of their doctrine..this of course causes intelligent people to question the whole fabric of the belief in God and that is very sad. I will always question things but I know deep in my heart a true and loving God exists for those that accept him..He has given us all the freedom to make up our own minds ..as a creator is that not in itself an act of love ..does not a Father allow his child eventually their freedom as part of that love and then stand by them even when they deny him..I can assure you God does.. |
Trophy Boy (Soundproof)
Starlite Member
Username: Soundproof
| | Posted on Friday, September 16, 2005 - 10:22 am: |
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oh, yeah |
Trophy Boy (Soundproof)
Starlite Member
Username: Soundproof
| | Posted on Friday, September 16, 2005 - 10:13 am: |
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Actually, embracing life would mean doing healthy things, exploring the world, making friends, falling in love, creating art, thinking, etc.
Also, not to burst your bubble, MIk3y, but my friends who were raised Catholic did more partying and screwing around than my secular friends.
Seriously, believing in a Magic Man in the Sky isn't the answer to life's problems.
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Trophy Boy (Soundproof)
Starlite Member
Username: Soundproof
| | Posted on Friday, September 16, 2005 - 10:02 am: |
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Mik3y, you really read a lot of strange things into my statement. I don't believe embracing life means having unsafe sex and doing hard drugs.
I do believe that religion puts walls between people. My own family has been torn apart by religion.
The bible teaches you to love God more than your family.
I take exception to that.
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Melinda Blount (Lostbabygirl)
Starlite Member
Username: Lostbabygirl
| | Posted on Friday, September 16, 2005 - 07:16 am: |
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There are no dead people in Heaven? It's always been my understanding that in order to get to Heaven, one must die first. The Virgin Mary died, all the Saints have died...wouldn't that mean they are dead? A Saint was once a living breathing person, then they died. If there are "no dead people in Heaven", how can there be Saints to pray to? Either there is no-one in Heaven save God and his "angels"...or there are dead people in heaven.
-No man is worth your tears. The one who is will never make you cry.
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Stuart Chugg (Antipodi)
Starlite Member
Username: Antipodi
| | Posted on Friday, September 16, 2005 - 02:13 am: |
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Do you know who Satan was supposed to be He was second in command one of the highest Angels..he knows exactly how to impersonate a holy person sadly in the state of this world thers are none only people like you and me trying to find the truth behind the lies. What about the complancency with with Hitler in the last world war was that a MYTH too. I think not. At no time as human being on this earth did Christ EVER wear the regalia of riches the Pope wears..as a human representative he came to show us humility and abstinance. Only when he ascended to Heaven was he again whole and NOT before yet the POPE assumes this role now and he is nothing but mere motal..Do you think that is not deciept..The best way for the Devil to decieve is to appear to become one Gods people especially a high office representative which no human should or could assume..No my friend until the Pope renounces ALL the posessions of ROME and gives everything to the poor and suffering(that would be the difference) then you might just have an arguement but so far all I hear is references to myths is that what you think the Bible is may you think the catecism is the new bible. With all your statements you seem to be rubbishing the Bible and its representations and it makes me very sad.Do you really think the history of the Popes their corruption and exploitation of the poor and vunerable in the past has been exhonerated by a few kind words. No my friend with all the scurity of todays modern media much of what was blatant in the old days has just gone underground cause the churches following is more sophisticated and not as gullible but sadly the deciet is still their> None of my questions have been answered satisfactorily so far, bowing down to idols er statues is bowing down to idolds(graven Images) as far as I am concerned and it is still a Nono. The king James version of the Bible is closer to an unabridged version than many others and it is neutral the only way to win your argument is show me your doctrines in an unabridged version after you have convinced me you should bow down or pray to Statues. You mentioned saints in heaven..who are they? Dead humans? or is that more of your myths.. |
Michael .P (Mik3y)
Starlite Member
Username: Mik3y
| | Posted on Friday, September 16, 2005 - 01:13 am: |
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Trophy boy thats far from the Truth because The first thing we are to embrace before heaven is the fact that We have life here! We're not ever encouraged to ignore the reality of this world..what we are discouraged in is letting the crap propaganda of this world seep into us. You know the stuff..like sex is the best thing in the world. Life is short live it to the fullest. Incidently living life to the full is partying hard every night taking drugs sleeping around with whoever not takin crap from anybody etc. These are the kinda things that take you away from reality my friend! The truth is Religion calls us to all love each other, no exceptions. So it is holding family, friends etc and even so much more. It puts life in the perspective it should be, Love comes first. Love answers all situations..this is all God ever asked of anyone was to Love like he has..which means unconditionaly because thats how we believe he Loved us If anyone in their right mind can debate the importance and greatness of such wise advice then please go ahead i'd love to know im chasing a hopeless dream if it were true. Until then look harder before you open your mouth or move your hands.
Michael william James
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Michael .P (Mik3y)
Starlite Member
Username: Mik3y
| | Posted on Friday, September 16, 2005 - 01:06 am: |
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Yes there is reference to the Vicor of Christ in the Bible. Are you implying that the King James is a 100% worthy bible? Hate to burst your Bubble but alot of things werre changed in the KJV so you could not argue a clear case that it is one of the most neutral sources.. hmm if thats what you were implying anyway
As for the Whole Pope being the Beast and Satan.. Tell me the definition of Satan, and what his job description is and then compare it to the Popes. I can't believe you still don't see the difference between bowing to God and bowing to Statues :| You seem pretty bright.
If you read the scriptures you will see that there are no dead people in Heaven. All are saints and Angels Apart from God of course.
You seem to have alot of hate towards the Church and the Head of the church which is a shame.. I have to ask why? How has the Church and its Head Hurt you?
You can believe in all the myths that the pope is the antichrist etc.. But if you really read revelations you will see that it is not talking about the Pope at all. You tried the whole 666 angle with me which is a bunch of rubbish, as the article clearly showed. If you want people to know that the Pope is the Antichrist show them how he is, what his done to suggest such things etc..not some wild stories about how 666 is inscribed into the popes crown..which they don't even wear now so its highly irelevant.
Michael william James
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Stuart Chugg (Antipodi)
Starlite Member
Username: Antipodi
| | Posted on Thursday, September 15, 2005 - 07:50 pm: |
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WoW! Firstly I am amazed(sadly) you admit to bowing down to statues , cause if you read your bible you will notice the comamndement says "nor graven images of me" I have on many occasions seen the Church worshipping Statues , Relics and other so called graven images. I need say no more on this subject and please dont say I am wrong cause you yourself admitted it. Yes you do PRAY to Mary so called Queen of Heaven..I only ask if you are Praying someone of importance why pray to the DEAD. Secondly Did you not read the Revelation there are many references to the Beast comming out from the "Sea" you call it the "Holy See" do you think the spelling can hide what I am talking about. if you wish to learn the truth as I have said in the past. Do not go to any doctines of any church but look to the Bible the most relevant books being for today are the Revelation and the Book of Daniel both have some very interesting facts you might like to check out. Make sure you use a neutral Bible one that has the correct and full interpretations from the original printed Greek versions not a reprinted one from the Vatican. Also there is NO SUCH THING as the Vicor of Christ and never was....Only in the compromising of the so called Christian Church of Rome...You Know the ones that Emporer Constantine started when he declared himself Pope.. |
Michael .P (Mik3y)
Starlite Member
Username: Mik3y
| | Posted on Thursday, September 15, 2005 - 06:25 pm: |
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There are no dead people in heaven Melinda
Michael william James
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Melinda Blount (Lostbabygirl)
Starlite Member
Username: Lostbabygirl
| | Posted on Thursday, September 15, 2005 - 04:56 pm: |
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Definition of pray...
1. To utter or address a prayer or prayers to God, a god, or another object of worship.
2. To make a fervent request or entreaty.
The reason I posted the definition of pray is for one simple fact. Mary, in all her glory, is dead. When you put your hands together (or bow your head. However you pray) and utter a statement, or make a request for the Queen of Heaven to "help you"...you are in fact praying to her. Talking to the guy next to you and asking for a prayer is a bit different than praying to the Queen of Heaven.
Catholics may not put Mary above God. I don't remember anyone saying that. But they do 'utter and address a prayer' to a dead person in Heaven. By definition, Catholics do "pray" to the Virgin Mary.
-No man is worth your tears. The one who is will never make you cry.
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Trophy Boy (Soundproof)
Starlite Member
Username: Soundproof
| | Posted on Thursday, September 15, 2005 - 09:21 am: |
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I don't see why people need to be "attached" to a religion. You can be attached to your family, other humans, groups, ideas, your work, your interest in the future of mankind. I suppose the impermanance of these things means to some people that they are ultimately empty. But life is impermanent and to not accept this is to miss out on reality. Religion is just a way for people to dose themselves out of this. They want to have something eternal, perfect and holy to believe in and they want eternal life for themselves and others. They will never learn to embrace reality.
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Michael .P (Mik3y)
Starlite Member
Username: Mik3y
| | Posted on Thursday, September 15, 2005 - 02:08 am: |
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Okay i will check with some people later to affirm this but until then i found this much informative article. Tis in regards to the suposed 666 myth people have of the popes crown.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vicarius_Filii_Dei
Vicarius Filii Dei, Representative of the Son of God in Latin, is a title mentioned in the forged Donation of Constantine as belonging to Saint Peter. Some claim that it is a title possessed by the Pope as head of the Roman Catholic Church (among them are certain groups within the Seventh-day Adventist church). However the Roman Catholic Church categorically denies this.
Pope John XXIII after being crowned.
Contrary to claims, as the photograph shows Vicarius Filii Dei is not written on it.When numerised in a certain way (see below), the words Vicarius Filii Dei produce the total of 666, a number described as the 'number of the beast' (ie, Antichrist in the Book of Revelation), giving rise to a myth that the pope is the Antichrist, and that such a title is written on the Papal Tiara, the papal crown
The "sources"
Four allegedly definitive sources are usually given.
A Protestant woman visiting Rome claimed she witnessed Pope Gregory XVI wearing a crown with the words on it, in or around 1832;
Pope Gregory XVI had supposedly worn a papal tiara with these words clearly visible on it at a Pontifical High Mass during Easter 1845;
The 'existence' of a photograph of a papal funeral at the start of the twentieth century (which probably means the funeral of Pope Leo XIII in 1903 but could possibly be Pope Pius X's in 1914) showing the words on a papal tiara.
The tiara (with the words mentioned) is always used to crown popes, but specifically was used in 1939 to crown Eugenio Pacelli as Pope Pius XII.
The reality
The claim is demonstrably false.
Image 1: the 18th century Papal Tiara
As the picture shows, this tiara has no writing on it.Whether or not the numerised total of the letters in Vicarius Filii Dei produce the total '666' is irrelevant because no such title actually exists for the papacy or the Holy See. While the words did feature in the Donation of Constantine (a forged document) they referred to St. Peter not subsequent popes. Current popes use the title Vicarius Christi - representative of Christ.
In 1832, only three tiaras existed; one from the eighteenth century, an 1800 papier-mâché tiara and one given by Napoleon I to Pope Pius VII in 1804. None of them contains writing. (See images 1 (18th century tiara) and 2 (1800 tiara) right.) No pope has ever worn the 1804 tiara. It was deliberately designed on Napoleon's orders to be too small to fit on a head and too heavy too wear. Popes also refused to wear it on principle because it was made up from parts of older tiaras broken up and stolen from the Vatican in 1798.
Pope Gregory could not have worn a triple tiara containing the alleged words during Easter Mass in 1845, because, as has been mentioned, papal tiaras were not worn during religious ceremonial, and most especially not during Mass. (The only principal exception, when a pope gave his traditional urbi et orbi blessing wearing the Tiara, occurred high up on a balcony and could not possibly be confused with a Mass celebrated at an altar.)
By 1845 the pope had received a new tiara, which like the earlier two does not contain any writing. Only one tiara has any major writing at all, the Belgian tiara of 1871 but it does not feature Vicarius Filii Dei or words even remotely similar. It reads Christi Vicario in Terra Regum, with the words spread out over three layers. Only one word of the alleged writing appears in the actual words on the 1871 tiara, and even there the word is in a different grammatical case. (For pictures of popes wearing these tiaras, see Papal Tiara)
All of the tiaras in existence at the time of the creation of photography and hence in the timeframe for the mysterious 'photographic evidence' still exist and have been accounted for, through receipts, repair records, valuations, etc. No tiara other than those currently in existence has existed since the destruction of early Tiaras by Napoleon's soldiers at the beginning of nineteenth century.
Image 2: The 1800 papier-mâché Papal Tiara
As the image shows, it does not contain writing.Though the evidence supposed 'exists' in the form of a photograph, in nearly one hundred years no-one has been able to produce the photograph, or even give definitive evidence of its existence, such as stating where exactly it was published.
While 'promoters' of the story constantly demand that the tiaras be 'released so that they can be inspected', that has in fact long been happening. One tiara is on public display in St. Peter's basilica itself on June 29th every year, where it is placed on the head of a statue of St. Peter. Pope Paul VI's tiara is on permanent display in Washington, DC. All the other tiaras have been displayed either separately or in groups, not just within the Vatican but even in the United States, where the 'story' first originated. They have also been displayed around Europe. Having been seen by large numbers, no-one has seen the words Vicarius Filii Dei on the side of a papal tiara, as is the claim.
There is not one Papal Tiara but many, with numerous ones being used for different popes, often with the decision on which one to use being decided on the basis of which one corresponded most closely to papal head size. Yet some websites promoting the myth speak of the same tiara always being used.
Okay there is alot more written about this but Tess and Albert will have my head if i were to paste it all on here. The link is at the top, please view it! thanks
MiCk.
Michael william James
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Michael .P (Mik3y)
Starlite Member
Username: Mik3y
| | Posted on Thursday, September 15, 2005 - 01:42 am: |
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I can't actually answer that question, as i do not know..but i wont hesitate in finding out for you I don't read the King James version at all..don't want to offend anyone so i wont say anymore except i do not and will not read it..unless of course i had no other Bible decent enough to read then i would read the KJV.
I do have to stop you right there when you say Mary is only a mere mortal..i agree but who are you implying looks at mary as more than a mortal?
The Bible does not say we can pray to mary, absolutely correct. Entirely why the Catholic Church does not Pray to mary.. They pray to God.. And they ask others to pray for them. As for the sabbath ill reply to that when i have the time and knowledge..im set to ask someone who will surely know very shortly. Lets just take one point at a time and not pile a heap at once..especially when there mentioned in other topics already. Not picking at your tail, but i just think it would give discussion at least a little more direction..and if anything free up some space for Tess and albert lol
You often mention that we should not bow down to graven images.. This text is taken out of its Context..because it is actually talking about such things as the Golden Calf..and other pagan Gods/idols. I don't see it anywhere in christianity anyway that people are bowing in a worshiping manner towards statues and such putting them on the Level of God or above him..or even above ourselves. Why do we take pictures of People? I mean isn't it enough that we have seen them? Surely when we look at them we are not thinking that we are really with them or that the picture is really them. Some fundamentalists take things too far they see someone bow down before a statue and assume that its the same as the pagans who would bow before a golden Calf. There is no similarity at all in these two instances. One is bowing down before a Golden Calf worshipping it, putting it above God devoting all their time and efforts to it. A Catholic/christian bowing before a statue of Jesus for example is not worshipping the statue nor are they bowing to the statue! They are bowing to God in the heavens, and they are praying to God their father in heaven.
Pagan holidays were compromised into Christianity at no cost. There are really scary freaky people out there that somehow think a tradition of hiding easter eggs and having the kids find them is evil and in some way offending God. To these people all i can say is take a closer look at what Jesus said and did on this earth. Yes compromises were made to help others feel more comfortable within the Church, but they were not at any cost and hence would never offend God.
I hope this has helped clear any mis perceptions you might of had on the Church and its teachings.
cheers,
MiCk.
Michael william James
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Stuart Chugg (Antipodi)
Starlite Member
Username: Antipodi
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 14, 2005 - 07:36 am: |
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Can You tell me what the Numbers Varcarious Fedili Dei means and why it was removed from the popes crown and what is the statement in revelation on this issue. No I dont have propoganda indented in my brain for many years I have studied various religions and the way they compromised with pagan beliefs and I can assure you what I believe is not propoganda. You are right the Pope is NOT mentioned in the bible but his crown is (guess where?), the church is also known as the holy sea, I think you should read Revelation from a King James version of the bible the whole story of the pope is in there.Peter accepted the leadership of the Church to serve God and show christians the way of Jesus not espouse the Virgin Marys intercedence with God, she is a mere mortal. Most Churches put too much effort on their so called leaders and loose the vision of Christ who is the only one who can interceed on our behalf before God. I think if you look closely at the Church you will find many compromises with pagan beliefs..The giving of Easter eggs is a classic example...Sadly the church has lost its way towards Christ and many are being decieved. All I ask is read your Bible(neutral) and make your own descisions..we rely too much on our own ideas through doctrine , a doctrine I might add that in the middle ages sought out innocents and killed them in the name of its beliefs, It also invented indulgences to raise monies for its leaders own benifits. The story of Martin Luther might shed some light on that. God,Christ, and belief in his word should not be blemished by these vile creatures who fashioned and are the ancesters of modern sunday worship. No my friend I do not doubt my beliefs but I do doubt those who use mortals to become saints and mortals to contact God for them. This I will never believe. I will follow Jesus the way he asks of me BUT throught the Bible and the Bible ONLY. Especially his ten commandments ..Thou shalt not have any other Gods before me nor bow down to any graven image(statuettes)and remember the Sabbath to keep it holy for in six days the lord God made this earth and on the Seventh he rested. This day he made holy...Where in those words does it say we can pray to the Virgin Mary (The Dead are alseep in the ground) or change the Sabbath to the Sixth day and why do even the Italians call Saturday "Sabat" |
Michael .P (Mik3y)
Starlite Member
Username: Mik3y
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 14, 2005 - 06:11 am: |
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Do you expect the Bible to Literally say word for word "POPE"?! Your not going to find it lol..im sorry im not laughing at you so please don't think that. Vicor of Christ is what Pope means.. Jesus Clearly gave Peter Authority and made him Head of the Church, Christs image was his reflection! This you will find in the Bible my friend Peter passed this authority through God the Father to man. Do you recall Palm sunday? When hundreds of people laid palms before their True king? The Pope can be looked at in a similar fashion, the majority of his life he owns Nothing..and he will never own anything All belongs to God. God used Peter to build his Church and spread the word giving authority in the name of God to chosen men, God continues to use the Head of the Church to this day to make stands on such things you mentioned "poverty" if you think Mother theresa was great have a look at what the Pope contributed to
God calls us all to be saints, he wants us to be perfect! We know here we cannot but we also know that we are called to try and keep trying no matter what to walk our Fathers Sons footsteps. Do you know why the Pope in Gods image and love makes people blessed etc? They are human role models for us to relate to, to help us know that yes it is possible to follow christ and come out on top with God. They are never put on an equal level with God nor is it ever implied! Such things would be like implying Michael the arch angel was on the same level as God or above Him.
Catholics only worship one God, Jesus is the only way to The father. Catholics also ask friends, family etc to pray for them. They also ask the Saints and angels in heaven to pray for them to our Lord our God.
You seem to have alot of confusion as to the actual teachings of the church, which leads me to suspect you have insight to some sort of propaganda..which i'd happily go through with you with what i know and what i don't i can find out for you Truth is all that counts, we do not have time for lies in our lives.
Michael william James
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Stuart Chugg (Antipodi)
Starlite Member
Username: Antipodi
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 13, 2005 - 04:49 pm: |
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I was saying when Peter became "The Pope" not the head of the church , we all know that fact..and where does this expression "Vicor of Christ" come from. Christ is our appointed representative on earth for the Father God NOT any human, for he is theONLY person that can approach GOD from this earth after it was infected by sin. Sadly , I am sorry if I upset you but you have the wrong doctrine. If you follow Christ you will see he never, even when he was recognised, took on the regalia of the Pope , yet he owned the right to every Jewel and piece of gold on this earth. He wanted to show that abstinance and humilty were the virtues of a great and holy leader NOT POMP ceremony , like Satan promised him in the tempting of Christ. The way of a true Christian a quiet path filled with love for your fellow man and humility together with abstinance from great riches. In your Church Mother Teresa was that, she set a truely wonderful example and I am sure there is special place far above any Earthbound Pope in heaven for her there. She gave up everything to help the poverty stricken and vunerable at the real coalface..but I say this to you she is no saint because this would put humans in the position of demigods and that is against the ten commandments. In fact I do not think Mother Teresa would truely want or accept Sainthood , she would prefer the Church did what can do best help the sick and lonly not espouse saints , Demigods, interceders..The Church is about the message NOT ABOUT A MAN, the Pope is an insignificant little person who assumes power to talk to God when only Christ has that power. |
Michael .P (Mik3y)
Starlite Member
Username: Mik3y
| | Posted on Monday, September 12, 2005 - 06:58 pm: |
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I was saying it would be Sad if that was the ONLY reason why you'd give such a name to your child, and yes i'd say the same if someone named there son coke ONLY because of a lil joke.
Chugg im sure you are aware of the passage in the Bible where Peter is appointed head of the church on earth and that all authority is given to him from Jesus via the Father, yes/no?
Well i do not have the time right now to find exactly where that is so im hoping you know if not i shall come back a bit later and post it or someone might kindly tell chugg where it is in the Bible.
In this passage Jesus puts Peter at the head of the Church the image of Jesus on earth remains in Peter. The pope is not egotistic, you only need look at the life these people live prior to becomming the Pope. I might recommend the dvd "Karol" it might give you some insight into how John paul the 2nd was very against those corupted and those who lead men into war. You will see he is far from carrying a manly ego. The pope just like Peter is the image of Christ on earth i.e "the vicor of Christ" Alot has changed since the days emperors became popes..if we were back in that time still then we could talk about that on its own..But thank God that things have changed for the Better and we are truely blessed with the Pope God has given us. Thats what the Church ultimately believes that through the Holy Spirit we are given a Pope just like was done with Peter God appointed him. In the past it might of been possible for an emperors son etc to become pope.
The Pope is very humble..but you have to remember that a humble person has to accept what is given to him by God even if he thinks it might be too much.. The Pope isn't in possession of anything he Belongs to God and the people, and that is all he is a true "Servant" if anything. I don't know where you get the idea the Pope relishes in riches, living a great horrid opulent life leaving the poor to suffer etc.
Heh cat i've met the Pope when he was here to make Mary mc killop Blessed I did not bow. But i was young heh and he was far away. I will be seeing him for world youth day when it hits the shores of sydney in 2008 i think! Then i will most likely bow or make the sign of the cross.. Why? Because Just like Peter was given the authority on earth so has the Pope.. A true image of Christ on this earth..and no he is not to be worshipped or glorified above God..But surely glorified and respected more than the rolling stones or some other rock group people often devote huge amounts of time and stuff to. Im sure you are not worshipping stars when you bow before them etc..in some cultures it is just a way of honouring someone, respecting them for their good name etc. Speaking of which i can't wait to meet the Pope, i hope to serve on the Altar for the big mass heh look out for me! The Pope seems pretty nice, maybe ill get to shake his hand in any case ill tell you all about it in 2008 lol
Michael william James
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cath (Catscanfly)
Starlite Member
Username: Catscanfly
| | Posted on Friday, September 09, 2005 - 09:18 am: |
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Mik3y, if you met the pope would you physically bow to him?
I am freezing and losing my way, I don't want another map of your head, Yeah. -Muse
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Stuart Chugg (Antipodi)
Starlite Member
Username: Antipodi
| | Posted on Thursday, September 08, 2005 - 10:57 pm: |
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Can you actually tell me in the Bible where Peter was made POPE and I mean POPE and that God created this position ..if he did it will be documented in THE BIBLE not a Doctrine of ANY CHURCH or a biased edited version of the BIBLE but the unabridged one and how come the very emporers that were sending the christians to the lions were made POPES in history was that also GOD's decree? So far all I have heard is rhetoric and what is vicar of christ is that not another man introduced ritual which was done away with at the cross. Peter was an Apostle of Christ I wonder what he would think of this position you give him , also did he go around in the gold robes the pope goes around in, did he live in a great austentatious palace when all monies he and his fellow christians raised was for distribution to feed and help the poor and sick NOT build great palaces for his own ego. Peter realised that like Christ he would live a true life of abstinance and humility... How humble is the POPE? |
Melinda Blount (Lostbabygirl)
Starlite Member
Username: Lostbabygirl
| | Posted on Thursday, September 08, 2005 - 10:02 pm: |
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When I said that I was going to ignore most of your post, I merely was saying that I wasn't going to respond to it as we see differently about it. We were going to disagree, so I was being diplomatic and not responding to it. Obviously I had to of read it, to read that you say that I'm in a comfort zone. :/
As for the truth. Truth is...I'm sitting in a chair right now. Truth is my name is Melinda. There are a alot of things I know are true. Religion, to the best of my knowledge, hasn't ever been proven 100% without a doubt. If it was, I don't think there would be many "nonbelievers". You say that I am turning away from truth, but the fact is that I'm only turning away from what you believe to be true.
Sad, you say, that I named my daughter partly because of a cute little "joke"? Is it any sadder than someone naming their child after a fad or fashion? And yes, I'm sorry, it's awful cute (and corny, I know) to hold your newborn daughter and say "you have to have Faith to see an angel". Sad? So be it, but my daughter has a very beautiful name to match a very beautiful child.
-No man is worth your tears. The one who is will never make you cry.
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zaheer - uddin (Zaheer)
Starlite Member
Username: Zaheer
| | Posted on Thursday, September 08, 2005 - 09:21 pm: |
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"No enlightened Catholic holds the pope's infallibility to be an article of faith. I do not; and none of my brethren, that I know of do." (This was said by Bishop John Purcell in the Campbell-Purcell Debate on the Roman Catholic Religion in 1837. The Debate was later printed in a book and Bishop's Purcell's statement is found on page 27. He made his remark before papal infallibility was decreed by the Vatican Council in 1870 to be an article of faith). |
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