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Annette Bromley
Starlite Member
Username: Annie
| | Posted on Saturday, April 29, 2006 - 12:44 pm: | 
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Hi Folks, Don't know how many of us read these and get involved in them...I don't often but this is a case where I do have a strong opinion. At this moment I still have the right to express that opinion and so do you. I have received not less than 37 emails today encouraging me to Boycott my Country on May 1st. Please read my response...I share my deepest feelings, my convictions with you now, like it or not.
I've read about it, I've heard about it and I just read another editorial sent to me by my son, an excellent article, I salute the author...Here is my response as an American and a Christian...not necessarily in that order. PLEASE READ...
VERY GOOD EDITORIAL...My opinion is this, illegal immigrants are ILLEGAL. They are breaking our laws. They don't belong here. If they would like to live here then learn to speak American, apply for citizenship, GET A JOB, any job and respect yourself and the nation that has given you the chance to start your life over some respect. We don't owe you a thing. If you are here in this country illegally you are breaking our laws. You should not be allowed to get away with that...we aren't allowed to break our laws so why should you. We have become a hand out nation rather than a hand up nation to the point where we can't even take care of our own. We don't need you making life more difficult than it already is. It is time that hand out came to a screeching halt. We do not need to support free of charge and with not so much as a thank you those who come here thinking life is going to be all peaches and cream from here on out. That is NOT reality. It isn't for us who are Americans and do respect and try to live within our laws. This form of rebellion is not AMERICAN. If you don't like it here get out. If you want to live here, become an American. Living in America is not a God-given right, it is a priviledge and that priviledge has been earned by a lot of blood, sweat and tears. If you are an American and you participate in such a blatant act of rebellion which is a form of terrorism than you have spit in the face of all Freedom and America stands for. Get this... School will be open. I will go to my job, I will shop if I need to, I will go out to dinner or a movie, play or ballgame if I choose to, I will pay my bills that are due, I will do what I do every day. I will pray to my God and I will honor my flag and I will behave like an American...And you, illegal immigrant, will not tell me what I ought to do nor will I give so much as a nod of respect to your blatant terrorist behavior or to any so called American who would support such an act. Listen up...If you are not an American, you don't have any rights here. You are here only as our guest and if you arrived uninvited you aren't even a guest, you are an intruder. If you would like the priviledge and honor of living with those rights that Americans hold dear, become an American. I would love to see you free and happy and earning your own living, getting a good education, be able to worship God as you understand Him and abiding by our laws if you are going to live in my land. I would welcome you with open arms. I am more than willing to give you a hand up but not a hand out. Freedom comes at a VERY HIGH PRICE...you want it, you earn it. You do your part. Annie |
Jim Armstrong
Starlite Member
Username: Njaeok
| | Posted on Saturday, April 29, 2006 - 03:00 pm: |
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Bravo!!
Well said Annie.
Night brings darkening, hope is adjourning.
Despair spreading its relentless spawn.
Yet prayer brings harking to hope reforming.
It's always the darkest just before dawn, Jimbo
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Jennifer Maxwell
Starlite Member
Username: Jennifer03801
| | Posted on Saturday, April 29, 2006 - 09:17 pm: |
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http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/03/30/ivins.immigration/index.html
http://www.sunherald.com/mld/sunherald/news/nation/14461674.htm
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Jim Armstrong
Starlite Member
Username: Njaeok
| | Posted on Saturday, April 29, 2006 - 10:29 pm: |
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Bravo!
Well said Jennifer. I loved the intelligent manner in which the links you posted outlined the problem.
What would be a just and humane solution to the dichotomy so well presented by these two sharp ladies?
Anyone have any ideas?
Night brings darkening, hope is adjourning.
Despair spreading its relentless spawn.
Yet prayer brings harking to hope reforming.
It's always the darkest just before dawn, Jimbo
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Annette Bromley
Starlite Member
Username: Annie
| | Posted on Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 07:27 am: |
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Hi Jen, Excellent articles and they go right to my point. Welcome to America, come on a visa, learn the language, the laws and get a job...I will be more than happy to give you a hand up. Happy here, life better than it was, good, become an American. When the illegal can come here and work and get an education, buy a home, have all the benefits I have and in two of the persons interviewed in the articles you shared, make more money than I have EVER made and they are doing it illegally and being encouraged to do so by big business because the business owners can line their pockets with gold on the backs of the needy it upsets me, not only for them, the illegal who is being conned but for me, an American whose generations go back to before the United States was even a dream. Illegals aren't the only ones being paid dirt wages and though they will not draw social security benefits even though they pay the tax, I tell you right now, there is no way the average legal American can live on those benefits either. My heart goes out to those who come here seeking a better life, I wish them well but I encourage them to live within the law.
Don't protest for something that is illegal to start with. It will just make matters worse. The real problem lies in those who condone breaking the law, those who help you break the law by giving you, selling you illegal documents and not treating you justly or fairly, those in big business and government who are looking to line their own pockets on your back. If you are here illegally, become legal, become an American or go home. You are bringing a lot of unnecessary misery down on your own head by doing what you are doing. If you will do this then there won't be a problem and businesses will have to pay a fair wage and you will have the same rights as everyone else and you will not have to live in fear that the knock on your door is an immigration officer there to arrest you and send you back where you no longer want to be. I wish you every success as you try to better your life but do it within the laws of this Country that you have chosen to come to, for your sake and for mine. Annie |
Jim Armstrong
Starlite Member
Username: Njaeok
| | Posted on Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 12:12 pm: |
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Annie---
I sympathize with your attitude but for the sake of discussion I will take the opposing view and present the other side,
Every good thing has the potential for misuse and bad results.
If there were no immigration our Social Security system would have long past went bankrupt.
If there were no immigration our crime rate would be a fraction of what it is.
Our immigration laws heavily favor the creative, intellectual gifted. That has played a major role in our leadership of the world.
In Russia, China, Cuba, Mexico or almost any other nation in the world Bill Gates would have been a misfit; not allowed to legally exercise his creativity.
The common person has little chance to legally immigrate to the free world. So they come in droves illegally and many of our basic institutions are dependent on their continued arrival.
If we could wave a magic wand and stop illegal immigration tomorrow, within a year inflation would render our dollar worthless, Social Security system would collapse, there would be no resources for wellfare and most restrauants, retirement homes, lawn maintainence and janitorial businesses would disappear.
So what do we do?
Night brings darkening, hope is adjourning.
Despair spreading its relentless spawn.
Yet prayer brings harking to hope reforming.
It's always the darkest just before dawn, Jimbo
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Jennifer Maxwell
Starlite Member
Username: Jennifer03801
| | Posted on Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 12:42 pm: |
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You can repeat your lecture as many times as you wish, Annette, but I think it's falling on deaf ears since illegal immigrants have heard it all before and are still willing to risk their lives to come here.
The misery they find here must be nothing compared to what they experience in their own country or why would they come and by the millions?
If some of them are making more money than some of us then it seems reasonable to conclude they worked harder. So could we please stop implying all illegal immigrants are jobless freeloaders?
I support the boycott not because I support illegal immigration but because a boycott will bring a lot of attention to the problem and therefore more discussion of possible solutions.
I more or less tend to agree with, (fasten your seat belt, Jimbo, don't want you falling off your chair) the President's proposal for a guest-worker program and a path to citizenship. Then again, I'm not as up on this topic as I wish I were.
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Annette Bromley
Starlite Member
Username: Annie
| | Posted on Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 01:19 pm: |
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Okay, and I agree with you to a point but we need to come up with some way to make their living here legal...we can't just let them come in in droves and be used by the corporate world. They are paying into the SS fund with no possibility of getting a dime in return because they have no legal rights within our system, I am speaking only of the illegal immigrant, the guy who sneaks into our Country aided and abeted by criminals that treat them lower than dogs, supply them with forged and illegal documents and turn them into criminals because they are indeed breaking the law of this land whether they realize it or not or whether or not it was their intention in the first place. It is not freedom when they live here in fear of the knock on the door, that it just may be the immigration officer arresting them and deporting them back to where they came from. They will eventually get caught and all their hopes and dreams will be dashed. We have laws in place that could work to help them and help us, they are not enforced. Amnesty isn't going to work, all that does is keep them from being thrown out, it doesn't make the American, it doesn't give them any more rights than they had before. They are still going to be forced to work for minimum wage or less with no benefits, that is slave labor. The last I knew America does not uphold slavery. Their kids, unless they are born here have no chance to get college scholarships or grants, legally. What I think might be a good thing is not to just give them amnesty so they don't get thrown out of this Country but give them a chance, okay, so you are here illegally, you have been taken for a royal corporate ride but you have a dream...Allow them a period of time to come forward, to register as an illegal, give them their green card, they now have one year to learn the language, the law as outlined in our constitution, be working and/or going to school and at the end of that year they will pledge their allegience to the United States of America or they will be sent home...Bottom line.
Freedom is not free. Let them come...I want them to be free and to have a chance at life but I want them to do it right. If they can't or won't then they need to go back to where they came from because we can't continue to give hand outs...lets give them a hand up instead. If they don't care enough about freedom to come to this country, learn and speak the language, respect our laws and do the best they are able to do to care for themselves and abide by the laws we live under, if they don't appreciate the freedoms we offer enough to become a citizen of this Country, if they are just using us for their own gain then they don't belong here. Freedom is a priviledge earned. We all must pay a price one way or another. As far as the corporate world is concerned, I highly doubt that it is going to go belly up because an illegal becomes an American, and they will still be working and putting into the pot...what is more, I don't think the CEO or CFO deserves 5.6 million a year or more at the expense of slave labor, illegal immigrants who are afraid to speak up and would have no rights if they did. These people are being turned into criminals through no real fault of their own...they are just following their dream for a better life and they aren't really getting it. When they are old and can no longer work they get nothing and we either send them back to their own country to die or we take care of them out of our tax dollars on an illegal authority. That is not fair to us or to them. This boycott is just biting the hand that is presently feeding them and identifying them as illegal immigrants putting them in a closer proximity to be arrested and deported. The problem really lies in our own corporate bigotry and a government who is turning a blind eye for political gain. That I think is the greater crime. I want to help them not hurt them but I want them to be living truly free not under the thumb of some employer who could and would turn them in if they don't do his biding. All they have to do is say to immigration that they hired this guy under false pretense and have just found out he is an illegal immigrant, I have fired him and here is his name and address and all the information I have on him. The employer gets off scott free and hires a new one. If they are going to be here and enjoy the rights and priviledges that comes with a free country then they need to become citizens of that country and live by its laws. Annie |
Anita Stith Tafolla
Starlite Member
Username: A_r_tafolla
| | Posted on Monday, May 01, 2006 - 12:37 am: |
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Perhaps one of the best known things about the Statue of Liberty are lines from a poem "The New Colossus" by Emma Lazarus. They are on a bronze plaque located on a wall of its museum, which is in the base of the statue. (It has never been engraved on the monument itself). In its famous final lines, it says:
Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
However, as the faces of the masses became less and less those of white Europeans, the welcome became more limited … immigration laws far more restrictive. My own ancestors came to this country – some in the very early days. Not always for the most pleasant of reasons. Some escaped to the colonies when the Cromwell-Roundheads disputes went on. Death was less likely here.
My ancestry includes names such as Stith, Elliott, Dougherty, Buss, Hinrichs, Burke, Flesner, Eilts, Mileham, Buckner, and Bathhurst. Good Irish, German, and English names. I’m proud of them and what they accomplished. One was the first Surveyor of Fairfax County in Virginia. One, a sister of Martha Washington. Still another, a collateral ancestor, the second mayor of Chicago. They fought in all our wars, although some collateral ancestors moved to Canada when England lost the Revolutionary War.
They were all acceptable white Europeans, although my own mother was made to feel ashamed of her ancestry during World War I, and disliked discussing it even decades later. She did not speak English until she started school – and it was never spoken in her home or church.
What does all this have to do with the current “illegals” question. My own feeling is that if our prejudices didn’t influence who could immigrate, perhaps the problem would be less. The real problem isn’t “illegals” but our resistance to allowing Hispanics to immigrate … period.
Some reading this post may feel that my last name – Tafolla – may be influencing my feelings. In a way it does. I married a fine Hispanic man, who was made to feel so shamed by his heritage that he would not admit any connection to Hispanics from Mexico. Of all the names I’ve discussed, his mother was actually the only person truly American – for she was part Native American. That, too, was not discussed.
Selfishness as well as prejudice influences our opinions. So often I read that we cannot let mass immigration take place because it will reduce our own lifestyle. Perhaps that is an acceptable reason from agnostic and atheists … but from Christians? I think we too often forget the words from The Epistle of James:
“2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.”
I cannot help but feel that in the arguments about “illegals”, many of us are showing dead faith. Helping the needy in other countries is only desirable if the help is sent there … not the needy here. Especially if their faces are not “white”.
"The Opposite of War isn't Peace, it's Creation."
Jonathan Larson
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Jim Armstrong
Starlite Member
Username: Njaeok
| | Posted on Monday, May 01, 2006 - 10:34 am: |
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This is tough. Little wonder out politicians are not sure what we want them to do about it.
Did you ever wonder what happens to all the money that comes in from all those "unmatched social security numbers"? Like millions of dollars each month not assignable to any SS accounts or any other account. I would suspect that the politicians have made it "LEGAL" for them to do with those monies what ever they want.
I remember going to work early in the morning when I was stationed in Philadelphia Naval Hospital. I always got stopped at a traffic light for long periods when there wasn't another vehicle in sight in any direction. Finally I just stopped looked for oncoming vehicles and drove on thtough when I ascertained it was safe. Illegal as hell.
I was stationed in New York for a couple of years. Where it was illegal to own a firearm. When I left the base in Brooklyn at night to catch a subway I carried a loaded pistol in my hand right out where everyone could see it. I was never mugged. Most sailors stationed there were mugged at some time or another. So much for legal VS illegal. When the rubber hits the road survival is the real rules and that is what brings most of our immigrants to our shores.
I think the protests are a tactical political mistake on the part of the illegal immigrants. In my opinion the political backlash will make everybody losers.
Night brings darkening, hope is adjourning.
Despair spreading its relentless spawn.
Yet prayer brings harking to hope reforming.
It's always the darkest just before dawn, Jimbo
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William F. Mansell
Starlite Member
Username: Onetinsoldier
| | Posted on Monday, May 01, 2006 - 08:02 pm: |
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You know, I wanted to add something really profound to this but honestly my face goes red at the thought and my brain starts smoking so it is rathger difficult to make coherent and supported statements. So I will just toss out a couple ideas and see how they fall.
Every bleeding heart in America wants our government to give these illegals something. This that or the other and generally something that takes away from some American citizen. I just rankle at the thought of foriegners coming here and every sort of club, society or whathave you gets on their bandwagon with give them this give them that, learn this language sorta thing. Last time I looked this was America and the primary language was ENGLISH--granted not a very good version but still English.
Here is the thing---load up the truck and go slip into any foriegn country you want without permission and see what you get?
If you dont get shot right off the bat you aint gonna get nuthin but a hard time! No single foriegn country is gonna give you school or welfare or much of anything, especially not by switching around and teaching in your native language.
There is a line needs to be drawn, and the American people need to stand up to that line and not flinch. Stand up and say --it stops here!
All of this is costing YOU! and by you I am including myself in all of the taxpaying people of the USA. We all are paying in some way or another more than needs be, or the payment we think is doing something else is being used to support people that are here ILLEGALLY!
Anyhows--before I start fuming seriously, think of this--before you stand up with any of these ILLEGAL immigrants for a moment think of how it would be the other way round....I bet youd find you were standing alone--in front of a firing squad!!
OH and PS--before I hear one more time--but they will do work that Americans wont. Let me clarify that--They will do work that Americans wont for the price offered! It is not that Americans wont do the work, it is that Americans cannot do the work for 3 bucks! And dont think for 1 second that corporate big wheels dont know that and arent encouraging it. Allow this to continue and soon you will be living in a mud hut rather than the nice house you have now. Already you almost cant afford to put gasoline into that Stupidly Useless Vehicle and at the current rate you wont be able to drive it because you cant afford Insurance.
your friend and aspiring poet
from the Heart of Texas
William Mansell
OneTinSoldier
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Jim Armstrong
Starlite Member
Username: Njaeok
| | Posted on Monday, May 01, 2006 - 09:21 pm: |
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That is exactly the backlash I am talking about. And I can find no way to disagree.
If someone sneaked into my house without being invited and then demanded that I cook and clean for them I would be a little irate.
I think we should drop the legal VS illegal labels and look at the pertenant facts.
1. We have a large number of uninvited "GUESTS?" in the country. We have found that for the most part they are assets and we are better off with them then without them.
2. The influx of uninvited "GUESTS" has gotten out of hand to the point that they are becoming liabilities rather then assets and we must do something to stem the flow.
3. We must also do something to sort out the undesirable predators that have slipped in with the honest folks.
4. We must set up reasonable standards of assimilation to encourage, (actually to insist), that those who wish to become a U.S. citizen do so by swearing alligence to the flag and becoming proficiant in the national language.
5. I believe that each citizen has the right to call on the government to address complaints they have about unjust situations. I don't believe that non-citizens have that right. Nor do I believe they should have that right. When forign citizens start marching in our streets all reasonable persons realize that we are being invaded and we must take necessary measures to defend ourselves.
Night brings darkening, hope is adjourning.
Despair spreading its relentless spawn.
Yet prayer brings harking to hope reforming.
It's always the darkest just before dawn, Jimbo
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Annette Bromley
Starlite Member
Username: Annie
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 02, 2006 - 10:40 am: |
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And you can quote me...There's got to be a way to make this work for all of us and this is nothing new to our history...Please read...
~ ON IMMIGRATION ~
"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith, becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American... There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language ... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907
Love, Annie
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Jennifer Maxwell
Starlite Member
Username: Jennifer03801
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 02, 2006 - 11:45 am: |
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Still lagging behind in getting up to speed on this topic, but I did come across this three year old article in my reading. Just tossing it in to stir up the pot.
http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:buSaznGZC74J:www.chronwatch.com/fea
tured
Referring to what it says in your Roosevelt post, Annette, about a person "becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American", would that mean no more Taco Bell at the mall, Chinese or Italian restaurants (my personal favorites)? What about the Priest or the Rabbi, no more blessings in Latin or Hebrew? A person's heritage should be respected as much as their willingness to learn English, or swear allegiance solely in order to gain citizenship.
It is as illegal to discriminate on the basis of race or creed as it is to immigrate illegally to this country. Unfortunately both still happen.
Our country is in debt up to it's eyeballs. Deportation of the estimated 11 plus million illegal immigrants would cost billions. And then there's the cost of monitoring every business to prevent them from again hiring illegals. Looks like the illegal immigrants want to stay and aren't yet ready to leave willingly so what are the options? That's the place where you need to start thinking, not by tossing around what should or shouldn't be. You don't want to give them some sort of amnesty and you can't afford to deport them all (for many reasons as Jimbo touched on) or prevent them all from crossing the border again so what do you propose should be done to resolve the situation to everyone's satisfaction?
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Jim Armstrong
Starlite Member
Username: Njaeok
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 02, 2006 - 02:22 pm: |
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I believe there is a middle road here that will work.
Symbols are important. So insisting that every invited immigrant who wishes to become a citizen must swear alligence to the flag and become proficiant in the national language would be strong influence to become an American or go back home.
Any non citizen found in violation of the law would be either imprisoned or deported depending on the severity of their violation. A traffic ticket would get an illegal immigrant deported.
Any employer wishing to hire forign nationals could do so under current law. They indentify who they want to hire and quarentee them a job and transportation from and back to their homeland. Those employers failing to properly document their workers would be fined and jailed for violating immigration law. Those laws are on the books. They are just not enforced.
The only amynsty that would be useful would be for current employers that are dependent on forign workers. Give them a time to sort out their workforce and then start raiding their operations. It won't take long everyone will respect the law.
If there is no work for undocumented workers most will stop coming across the border.
Night brings darkening, hope is adjourning.
Despair spreading its relentless spawn.
Yet prayer brings harking to hope reforming.
It's always the darkest just before dawn, Jimbo
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Jennifer Maxwell
Starlite Member
Username: Jennifer03801
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 02, 2006 - 10:01 pm: |
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Kind of interesting reading in this article from Business Week Online:
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_29/b3943001_mz001.htm
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William F. Mansell
Starlite Member
Username: Onetinsoldier
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 03, 2006 - 06:52 am: |
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I love this! Finally a real discussion on a political/personal issue I can vent a bit on. LOL!
Jimbo I know exactly what you are saying about the "reality" of things and I myself have driven thru a few of those lights as well but I do believe you and I are American citizens and are more than willing to stand up for "our" country.
I would be willing to bet that if we dig back far enough we would find that some of our ancestors immigrated here at some time and became US citizens...legally.
Now see that is the thing, legal. There are governmental divisions and such to check and allow anyone immigrating here the chance to become a US citizen and honestly it is not a difficult task to accomplish. (See here http://www.uscis.gov/graphics/services/natz/faq.htm#q3 )
Thing is immigrants hafta WANT to! That and basically they need to not be sneaking in like a thief in the night. Again on this I perked up on Jimbo's analogy to "If someone sneaked into my house without being invited " which is exactly what is happening here. (On a side note--Dont sneak into MY house unless you wanna get shot about 30 times) Seriously tho, I believe this to be the same as an act of war. The US is being invaded. Granted it is by a fairly peacful means and could be construed as being of benefit to some but nonetheless it is an invasion. Not like all these folks walked in and asked to come here and expressed a desire to become citizens.
Anyone recall the internment camps during WWII?
OK maybe not a great example but one that fits, I suppose that unless the US has openly declared war on a country then it is fine and dandy for people to sneak across the borders (again "sneak into your house" )and do whatever they wanna!
There are many factors covering the closing of borders and probably the one most frequently used is lack of funding. I find it rather strange that the US government can fund "wars"(or are these just more "Police actions"?)in far away places but cannot keep basic protection for the law abiding citizens here.
It is time for all those citizens to take a stand.
Stand in a ballot box and make choices that will make a difference!
OK I will end this rambling rant on a quote from my Grampa, one of the smartest men I ever knew.
"Clean your own house before you tell someone else their's needs cleaning."
your friend and aspiring poet
from the Heart of Texas
William Mansell
OneTinSoldier
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William F. Mansell
Starlite Member
Username: Onetinsoldier
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 03, 2006 - 07:07 am: |
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OH here is a thought.
Maybe we should try and hire up this woman from the Netherland? The Minister of Foriegn affairs or something like that. The one they nicknamed "Iron Rita"? I think mayhaps someone like unto that would put a damper on "illegal" immigrants.
Here is an exerpt from http://www.answers.com/topic/rita-verdonk that gives an idea of what it is about.
"Verdonk has proposed the following plans, that have raised controversy:
In order to reduce migration through marriage, she has proposed that partners of Dutch citizens are only allowed to immigrate into the Netherlands if the Dutch partner earns more than 130% of the minimum income.
She refused to grant pardon to 26,000 asylum seekers who lived in the Netherlands for over 5 years but who were not be granted asylum.
To integrate migrants into the Dutch society, every person who wants to immigrate into the Netherlands must have passed an integration test. It tests knowledge of the Dutch language, political system and social conventions. The test must be taken before entering the Netherlands, preferably in a Dutch Embassy in the country of origin. "Oudkomers", migrants who have lived in the Netherlands for a long time, but are not "integrated", are also requested to take the exam. EU nationals, and nationals of various other western nations such as the US, are exempt from these policies."
Why not? If immigrants are willing and really wanna be here I dont see a problem. But then I am a hardnosed old grump!
your friend and aspiring poet
from the Heart of Texas
William Mansell
OneTinSoldier |
Michael .P
Starlite Member
Username: Mik3y
| | Posted on Thursday, May 04, 2006 - 12:51 am: |
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All i can say is its not about you. Its about them.. we use to freely invade countries and take them over.. and then not so long ago saddam invaded kuwait..and we said no..hang on a minute this is wrong. Those people ..some of them genuinely seek refuge where ever they can find the opportunity be that legal or illegaly. As for learning English..its said to be very difficult..and some people who've just run from bombs and a corrupt government aren't exactly well motivated or in the mood to study. Some people just want to live.
Thankyou Anita..finally an American who truely knows what their country stands for.. Liberty..how great that statue is..and no its no idol..we do not worship her. But all christians and those who value all life can truely stand within that statue their beliefs and values of Human life. One key point here is how will such immigrants effect America..or even you? Jim actually brought up some great benefits that come with social securitiy etc.. Anita most of the American's that call themselves Americans nowdays were from refuge backgrounds..and if America had of been so tough on them they'd never be here. Your right Jim its live or die......forget having the troubles us westerners have to deal with..not finding a high paying job and a car to get us around or having a decent home to raise a family. Its live or die.. if they find a roof whether made of cardboard or tin..its live or die..if they find food from a resteraunt or a bin..its live or die. And i hate to bring back some terrible old memories..but some of our ancestors survived this way too..because life was about living and not about living WITH...
Michael william James
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Jennifer Maxwell
Starlite Member
Username: Jennifer03801
| | Posted on Thursday, May 04, 2006 - 05:05 am: |
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To lighten the mood...
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/47978&rss=1 |
Michael .P
Starlite Member
Username: Mik3y
| | Posted on Thursday, May 04, 2006 - 05:49 am: |
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Nice work Jenn ;)
Michael william James
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Jennifer Maxwell
Starlite Member
Username: Jennifer03801
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 09:56 pm: |
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"The second U.S. soldier who died under fire in the Iraq war had entered the United States illegally. With the Army and Marines having difficulty meeting their recruitment goals, more conservatives call for letting undocumented immigrants gain citizenship by agreeing to serve."
http://www.suntimes.com/output/jesse/cst-edt-jesse09.html
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Ziggy_zagmyer
Starlite Member
Username: Ziggy_zagmyer
| | Posted on Thursday, June 08, 2006 - 09:48 pm: |
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hi,
i rarly ever get involved in political dicussions here, in fact i think this is the first time ive been in this forum, weird that i picked tonight. i believe i have an interesting persceptive id like to share.. if i might... and i hope i dont disrespect anyone.
my people had this same exact problem 3 to 2 hundred years ago. europeans just kept coming and coming and coming into this country. we never really invited them, but then we never really told them to go home either. they started using up all of our resources, or destroying them to help destroy us, they refused to learn or speak our language, they had no respect for the "way we do things" in this country, they seized our land... illegally. and you probably know the rest of the story im sure.
anyway, maybe its wrong for me to say this, but im kind of enjoying the irony of all of this. and maybe european american are finally starting to understand how we feel, and our ligitamate greavance with policies still in effect to this day that keep us from any kind of restoration.
then again, it may still be hard for european american to understand what its like to be treated like an "illegal" in your "homeland"
perhaps that is not neither here nor there and doesnt belong in this thread.
i here a lot of talk about a "wall", to keep illegals out. i remember a recent conflict, the cold war, that was parally about tearing down a wall. and i remember what a joyous ocassion it was when the berlin wall fell, felt like people were really united, felt awesome.
as far as the chistian perspective (and i do not wish to offend anyone, please keep in my my perception and experiences). when chistianity was "forced" upon us (you can look up lakota history and find out all about that), most of my tribe accepted it, they really liked jesus. they thought jesus would have been a good indian, and felt compelled to listen to what he had to say. i guess in a way that was a good thing for lots of indians, perhaps not so good for tradionalist like my grandfather.
anyway, robert frost once said "fences make good neighbors", but then i never like robert frosts poetry, or robert frost. personally, i think fences make good strangers.
i guess a wall just doesnt seem all that chistian to me, neither does any of this national, perhaps racial exclusion or greed... or whatever you want to call it.
ok, thats it, i said what i wanted to say, yall have agreat night.
zig |
Njaeok
Starlite Member
Username: Njaeok
| | Posted on Friday, June 09, 2006 - 08:12 am: |
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I like your comparsion Zig. It really puts things in prospective.
I think my Native American forbearers were idiots to not insist that the Europeans who came across the ocean assimulate to their culture. The result is what we have today.
When two cultures start to blend there is much positive potential for both cultures. There is also much negative potential. If one takes a fair hard look at the cultures of Mexico and south there is much rich traditions of honor and strong family ties. There is also enormous social and spiritual assets that would go far to renew and invigorate the North American cultures. On the other hand there are things that are completely incompatable with our culture that would lead to economic collapse and civil war if not weeded out by a fuctional process of assimulation.
So far the United States has sucessfully assimulated large numbers of foreign immagrants by insisting on the process of assimulation.
Native Americans couldn't or wouldn't do that. Their culture was overrun and much priceless cultural wisdome was lost to the world.
Night brings darkening, hope is adjourning.
Despair spreading its relentless spawn.
Yet prayer brings harking to hope reforming.
It's always the darkest just before dawn, Jimbo
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Lostbabygirl
Starlite Member
Username: Lostbabygirl
| | Posted on Saturday, July 22, 2006 - 08:01 am: |
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Man, this person is persistent...
just covering up the last poster so that kids don't find the "screen name" interesting (which is what brought me to the political forum in the first place).
"It is a first class human tragedy that people of the earth who claim to believe in the message of Jesus, whom they describe as the Prince of Peace, show little of that belief in actual practice." - Gandhi
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Hulk
Starlite Member
Username: Hulk
| | Posted on Saturday, July 22, 2006 - 08:25 am: |
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Someone has a grudge and instead of discussing it like a rational human being they keep posting junk. Obviously they're a few sandwiches short of a picnic and more than pretty dumb. |
Fairystar50
Starlite Member
Username: Fairystar50
| | Posted on Saturday, July 22, 2006 - 08:56 am: |
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To be with voice and love the where you live and honor the messages of our familys be free us to fight the word and set it up with a flag all way back to betty ross is the standing each one felt the importance to hang on to the one thing most dont have the freedom to walk and feel the sunshine, touch mother earth..for wthout our hearts peace..our world ceases to exsist..and is sad with many lines lost ..with freedom we stand for the honor the lines can cross again to smile
values of Human beauty, love honor courage to give our children honesty..To be the citzen is the right in the heart speaking with all languages joined, but with the way you learn study believe, as we all do to get the message and be apart
freedom is not free!!!..we must earn the right be apart fight for the small steak which after the study to be a citzen, the job then you can as the immgrant stand tall and say I belong~
Debby
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Mik3y
Starlite Member
Username: Mik3y
| | Posted on Saturday, April 28, 2007 - 05:42 am: |
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Now that we're safe and comfortable lets not let this become over crowded and a threat to our nice "natural" environment we've constructed. Why not adopt an open door policy like we "civialised" people thought up for our trade efforts and exploitation in China. Why is is such a threat to think of our country being over populated. Did the native Indians ever have problems with population and immigrants?
While it seems we don't so much command and conquerer anymore..[excluding Iraq lol] we do put up walls and armies to keep people out, because we have the 'right'?
Oh only "naturaly"
Let some more "civalised" race come in and take over our land and then we might not see things so rationaly! What are some ignorant fears.... well we can't let too many muslims or arabs into America.what if they out number us they'll take over and make things their way. Some people would honestly welcome the change to tell you the truth. Fear and intimidation have conjured up their last illusion. Time to put common sense on the map. Your all greedy invading over protective hypocrites myself included. What house, what land? I own nothing, it can be taken away within a second.
My 3427898432932cents lol
peace,
MiCk.
Michael william James
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Satanic_inc
Starlite Member
Username: Satanic_inc
| | Posted on Monday, October 22, 2007 - 11:37 am: |
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If illigal working immigrants in the problem then get your fat lazy asses out to work! Reap the god damn fields, pick those strawberries, get those juicy tomatoes and place them on baskets carefully, break your back working. If big business wants Immigrants its all because of one reason - THEY ARE WILLING TO WORK -. Immigrants say "Si senor" not "i want 50% over time pay because i have a shinny plastic piece of •••• card that entittles me to bitch like a pansy about working," blah blah blah.
I'm shackled to this alter
sacrificed to their God
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Mik3y
Starlite Member
Username: Mik3y
| | Posted on Saturday, October 27, 2007 - 12:59 am: |
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Amen. Satan lol
Michael william James
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