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Holy Soldier
Starlite Member
Username: Holy_soldier
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 03, 2006 - 08:02 pm: | 
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OF JUSTICE, FOR WHICH THE JURY MEMBERS THEMSELVES SHOULD BE DRAGGED OUT INTO THE MIDDLE OF THE STREET BY LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT AND SHOT TO DEATH!
Moussaoui Sentenced to Life in Prison
A federal jury rejected the death penalty for al-Qaida conspirator Zacarias Moussaoui on Wednesday and decided he must spend life in prison for his role in the deadliest terrorist attack in U.S. history.
After seven days of deliberation, the nine men and three women rebuffed the government's appeal for death for the only person charged in this country in the four suicide jetliner hijackings that killed nearly 3,000 people on Sept. 11, 2001.
The verdict came after four years of legal maneuvering and a six-week trial that put jurors on an emotional roller coaster and gave the 37-year-old Frenchman of Moroccan descent a platform to taunt Americans. The judge was to hand down the life sentence Thursday morning, bound by the jury's verdict.
It was the sixth case in a row since the death penalty was restored in 1976 in which federal prosecutors failed to obtain an execution in this courthouse - all the more striking this time because the Pentagon is just miles away.
More details to come from NewsRadio 620 KTAR.
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may the jury and mousaoui - however the hell the son of a bitch spells his god dam name rot in hell. |
Michael .P
Starlite Member
Username: Mik3y
| | Posted on Thursday, May 04, 2006 - 12:15 am: |
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I'm actually delighted with the decision..you don't teach a man what not to do by doing the same to them. Have some heart; we don't need to sink that low just because he and a few others have. But then again..i was never a keen believer in capital punishment..after seeing my own friend get shot by someone because They felt he'd done something terribly wrong [liking a girl they liked] that it was worth taking their life. And i know its awfully petty..but so is the idea of getting on the capital punishment band wagon because some deluded man thought it was best to kill a heap of people...we teach justice by killing him? It might stop him from killing another..but it wont stop all the other people who see capital punishment as the injustice and seek their own revenge. An endless cycle of hate and misunderstanding and tell me you want to keep it going? Now not only do you want the prisoner shot but you want each member of the jury executed..or at least you incite the idea ... When will you make an effort to stop this vicious cycle? coz its starts with me and you...and if you hate me well I'm going to do the better much harder thing and try to love you lol
Michael william James
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Jennifer Maxwell
Starlite Member
Username: Jennifer03801
| | Posted on Thursday, May 04, 2006 - 12:55 pm: |
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Good to see you back,HS. I've been wondering about you. Hope everything's ok.
I think Moussaoui got the worst possible sentence. He'll spend the rest of his life in isolation in a 12 by 7 foot cell. Imagine 40 years or so with practically no human contact, your only view of the world through a four inch slot in the wall that looks out on nothing. If he's not insane now, he will be before he dies. He didn't win, he lost in the worst possible way, sentenced to a living hell. It won't be long before he realizes death would have been the easy way out.
(Message edited by jennifer03801 on May 04, 2006) |
Jim Armstrong
Starlite Member
Username: Njaeok
| | Posted on Thursday, May 04, 2006 - 02:19 pm: |
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Hold on to your hats!--- I agree with Jennifer on this one. (Actually, once we kind of let our guard down a little we seem to have more in common then I would have thought.)
Anyhoo-- by the moral principles and standards I recognize it is a lot worse to imprison a man for life then it is to execute him.
Night brings darkening, hope is adjourning.
Despair spreading its relentless spawn.
Yet prayer brings harking to hope reforming.
It's always the darkest just before dawn, Jimbo
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Michael .P
Starlite Member
Username: Mik3y
| | Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 11:18 pm: |
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How is it if a man alive still has life..... yes suicide and euthanasia and capital punishment is a much easier way i totally agree NOT! Why don't we go make Life Easier for those people who have no legs or are born horribly deformed because we certainly must know what Life is worth living and what isn't. The nerve of you all to think you know the true value of life.... What are you comparing life imprisonment to exactly?.... Lets exclude death for a second.. what is the closest life not worth living next to life imprisonment? I know i sound angry and suprised.....I'm not there are many people who share your views..and i accept your opinions but i won't tolerate them. Where will you draw the line because i draw the line at LIFE. Life is worth living.
I hope so much that you are not in agreeance with inciting such hate towards the jury either.
Michael william James
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Jennifer Maxwell
Starlite Member
Username: Jennifer03801
| | Posted on Saturday, May 06, 2006 - 07:21 am: |
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Moussaoui's mother said it best. He's been buried alive. Look up life in Supermax, Michael, it's not your ordinary prison. For Moussaoui it's going to be a slow, painful death in almost complete isolation. I always said I didn't believe in capital punishment. I still don't think I do, but as compared to 40 plus years in Supermax with no chance of parole or being moved to a less restrictive prison, lethal injection would be the kinder way to go.
HS believes in the Old Testament eye for an eye. That's where his anger at the jury comes from. He's not inciting anything, he's simply expressing his anger and frustration. Many of us who saw the horror of 9/11 as it was happening wanted blood vengeance, I'm ashamed to say at the time I did myself. Our government failed to bring Bin Laden to justice, Moussaoui is a scapecoat and it's understandable why HS wanted him to receive what he perceives to be the ultimate punishment.
As for life always being worth living, trust me, there are instances when it isn't. If you ever have to make the decision whether or not to pull the plug on someone who's in excruciating and intractable pain from a terminal illness, (and I pray that you don't) then you'll understand.
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Michael .P
Starlite Member
Username: Mik3y
| | Posted on Saturday, May 06, 2006 - 04:59 pm: |
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If he is so fond of the old testament he'd know that teachings were so harsh because of the hardness of hearts..but he would also see a bit of Jesus Christs teachings developing within the old testament.. many symbols like abraham walking through the desert, the book of job..just to name a couple plus the whole sacraficial lamb's meaning. Anyways thats off topic.. its easy to write off life and compare it to death we know very little about. Truth is i personaly don't know if it would be better for him or not..but i do know that all life is valuable regardless of which conditions it is living in. If someone is purely living only off a machine then you have to pull the plug eventually..and even then its not you directly killing the person. Living life in prison must have some POTENTIAL mental health issues probably physical issues also.. But it is very far from death. Someone who is terminaly ill i think you'll find is anything but far from death. I hope you can see the huge difference in both examples.
Michael william James
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Jennifer Maxwell
Starlite Member
Username: Jennifer03801
| | Posted on Sunday, May 07, 2006 - 01:40 pm: |
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I'm sure HS is familiar with the entire Bible, but that doesn't change what he believes or what he feels.
Life is valuable, that's not the argument, but there are conditions under which living becomes so intolerable that death becomes a welcomed release. Years of sensory deprivation, lack of stimulation, with almost no human contact and no hope of release like what Moussaoui will experience in supermax would do it for me, as I believe it would for many people.
As for eventually having to pull the plug, that's simply not true. People can and often do die while on life support. And I assure you that if you were on a ventilator and unable to breathe on your own, knowing that, should I choose to disconnect the ventilator of my own volition, not only would I be killing you, I'd be murdering you and as directly responsible for your death as if I'd shot you.
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Michael .P
Starlite Member
Username: Mik3y
| | Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 02:10 am: |
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So how long is too long to be living on a machine Jenn?
You said it all when you said "almost no hope" that is the part which life needs to hold onto. If every black slave gave up on themselves because of their terrible situation and living environment then where would the black african american people be today? I'm sure at a quick glance it seems like a suitable alternative..but look again. I'd never promote suicide to anyone regardless of where they live etc. Why would i when i have seen with my own eyes that almost no hope turned into what some people call a miracle.
Michael william James
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Jennifer Maxwell
Starlite Member
Username: Jennifer03801
| | Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 05:05 am: |
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How long is too long? You tell me, Michael, you were the one who said eventually you'd have to pull the plug. So when would you give up hope and pull the plug?
I didn't say almost no hope, I said "almost no human contact and no hope of release".
I'm not promoting suicide, simply stating that Moussaoui's sentence of life spent in isloation in supermax with no hope of release is going to cause him to suffer longer than if he'd been sentenced to death by lethal injection.
(Message edited by jennifer03801 on May 08, 2006) |
Michael .P
Starlite Member
Username: Mik3y
| | Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 06:30 am: |
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Oh no i asked you first..you tell me lol
I know what you said ..and i took out of it what i needed to make the point about "Release" Like i discussed I'm sure the black people thought many times that release from slavery was but a "dream". No hope whatsoever... but the idea of death next to that suffering still had a pretty clear line between the two. One was the end another was a beginning to great things. Surely i wouldnt be suggesting a man as cold hearted as so many people have implied could ever have a change of heart? Not if capital punishment had finished the job like so many people wish they did.
Michael william James
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Jennifer Maxwell
Starlite Member
Username: Jennifer03801
| | Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 08:44 am: |
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You made your point by intentionally twisting the facts to suit your argument - you quoted me as having said something I never did. I'm really not comfortable with that and find it rather sophomoric and unfair in discussion or debate.
I think your analogy misses the mark by a mile. You're comparing life spent in servitude to life spent confined in a 12 by 7 foot concrete cell deprived of almost all human contact and all social interaction until the end of your days, and without the chance of even feeling the wind or sun on your face or seeing the grass grow green in spring again.
Since you've pressed the question I'll answer and insist you do the same - when watching someone you love suffer more than your heart can bear. Now, when do you give up hope and pull the plug as you said one must eventually do?
As I said before, I'm not in favor of the death penalty, but I believe there are circumstances that make living intolerable. Moussaoui wasn't sentenced to life in supermax without possibility of parole hoping he might have a change of heart or be rehabilitated, and I feel sure you know that.
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Michael .P
Starlite Member
Username: Mik3y
| | Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 11:54 pm: |
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Twisting your facts i did not. "Almost no human contact and no hope of release" When i mentioned release i was not talking about physical bars or concrete walls jennifer. I definitely do know that he won't ever be granted parole.. i don't know however if his heart will change or be rehabilitated. When life isn't life anymore thats when i'd pull the plug..not before. I once thought a life worth living meant food shelter and love..and a full able body or mostly able body. I have since changed my opinion when i met young people who had never been shown love who were badly deformed and were lucky to even find a cardboard box for shelter. Some of these people didn't even have hope..just life what little they had was the best thing they had.
Michael william James
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Jennifer Maxwell
Starlite Member
Username: Jennifer03801
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 06:09 am: |
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To me, misquoting is twisting the facts, but I'll let that go. I'm more interested in the part of your post about when you'd pull the plug.
So there's no misunderstanding what you mean, Michael, could you give us at least a couple of examples of "When life isn't life anymore..."?
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Michael .P
Starlite Member
Username: Mik3y
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 09:53 pm: |
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It seems i took "almost" and added that to "No Hope" which is what you said... anyway. When someone is terminaly ill and has no road to recovery..all efforts have been exualted the machine is the last resort and its safe to say there is no chance of recovery.. of course we can never be 100% but there you go an example of hanging onto life by every inch. Just what exactly are you trying to get at here.. that no one can 100% ever value what life is worth living and what is not? I agree with that never 100% Or is there something else you are after whilst badgering me?
Michael william James
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Jennifer Maxwell
Starlite Member
Username: Jennifer03801
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 11:14 pm: |
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It was never my intention to badger you, Michael, but rather to have you clarify your position so that I could understand it.
Also, you stated as fact a couple of things which are not true that might have upset or confused anyone reading this thread. For example, you stated eventually you have to pull the plug, and that you're not directly responsible for the death of a person if you remove their life support.
And, by saying something like "life is worth living", you created the impression that it's always wrong to discontinue life support regardless of the circumstances or the patient's suffering, just keep the person on life support hoping and waiting for that miracle you mentioned.
Are you now saying it's ok to discontinue life support if it's fairly certain there's no chance of the patient recovering? I asked for examples of when you'd pull the plug but your response, quoted below, is a bit confusing to me when you call it an example of "hanging onto life by every inch" instead of an example of when you'd pull the plug.
"When someone is terminaly ill and has no road to recovery..all efforts have been exualted the machine is the last resort and its safe to say there is no chance of recovery.. of course we can never be 100% but there you go an example of hanging onto life by every inch."
It's ok to drop out of this discussion if my asking you to clarify your position is making you uncomfortable.
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Michael .P
Starlite Member
Username: Mik3y
| | Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 12:03 am: |
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I believe i Just clarified it already.. Holding onto life by every inch..till every effort has been exaulted...How much more clearer do you want me to be? I'm not feeling discomforted by your questions, however i am puzzled as to what answers you want me to give you. Obviously one has to pull the plug because the machine is alive and not the patient..and those people who do have a chance of living need the machines for that chance. It is fact that eventually the plug has to be pulled whether its because of a patients recovering or for lack of recovery.
Michael william James
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Lostbabygirl
Starlite Member
Username: Lostbabygirl
| | Posted on Friday, July 21, 2006 - 10:02 pm: |
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I wouldn't dare open those links, but I certainly don't think they need to be on a family oriented poetry site.
(Message edited by lostbabygirl on July 21, 2006)
"It is a first class human tragedy that people of the earth who claim to believe in the message of Jesus, whom they describe as the Prince of Peace, show little of that belief in actual practice." - Gandhi
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Mik3y
Starlite Member
Username: Mik3y
| | Posted on Sunday, May 06, 2007 - 09:06 pm: |
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Why? Should the family avoid the topic of capital punishment, euthansia, abortion, suicide etc..or talk and discuss it like a true seeker would. Will bars and a jail cell stop you from living your life or merely make it ultra difficult? Capital punishment i don't even have to answer..it already answers one bad with another. Eye for an eye....some people haven't learnt a thing!
Michael william James
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Jayc
Starlite Member
Username: Jayc
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 01:38 pm: |
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whilst there is the attitude of an eye for an eye, there will always be hatred in this world. Those of us who believe in scripture, Holy Book or whatever faith we adhere to, knows that to kill is wrong! No matter how much debate there is, what this man and other like him did, was to remove innocent lives from this planet. they killed! there is no denying this bare fact. so are we, the masses of humanity who witnesses this horrendous massacre of innocent people, going to then be as these murders are, and kill in revenge? Vengeance belongs to no one! Vengeance belongs to God! for those who do not believe in God, or whomever, then surely just a basic belief in the goodness that there can be in humanity would allow us not to become as base as these murderous people are who did this? Jayc
Jayc
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Jayc
Starlite Member
Username: Jayc
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 01:40 pm: |
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whilst there is the attitude of an eye for an eye, there will always be hatred in this world. Those of us who believe in scripture, Holy Book or whatever faith we adhere to, knows that to kill is wrong! No matter how much debate there is, what this man and others like him did, was to remove innocent lives from this planet. they killed! There is no denying this bare fact. so are we, the masses of humanity who witnessed this horrendous massacre of innocent people, going to then be as these murders are, and kill in revenge? Vengeance belongs to no one! Vengeance belongs to God! For those who do not believe in God, or whomever, then surely just a basic belief in the goodness that there can be in humanity, would allow us not to become as base as these murderous people are who did this? Jayc
Jayc
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Bubby
Starlite Member
Username: Bubby
| | Posted on Saturday, May 08, 2010 - 08:00 am: |
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All of this sympathy for killers is directly proportional to the elemination of babies by abortion.Its okay to kill babies,but not hardened criminals?Why waste money on habitual criminals for several years? We the tax payers have to pay to keep them in clothing,food,medical supplies,etc.
A tremendous amount of unwed mothers have frequent abortions because they were too stupid to take precautions.So,your okay with that?
Murder is murder.Sure give the criminals a t.v. and all of the benefits of a exercise room,better health insurance than we have,3 meals a day and an exercise yard.I feel if a woman is raped,that should be the only exception for abortion.
So the p.c. people think they have reformed a child rapist in prison and they release him....only to give him the freedom to go out and kill another child....and we should keep re-iterating this process?The majority of the people voted on the death penalty,yet the courts refuse to acknowledge it.
You can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear.Child killers are the scum of the earth and deserve the death penalty. |
