The Starlite Cafe: "Is Beirut burning?"

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"Is Beirut burning?"

The Starlite Cafe » Political Discussion » "Is Beirut burning?"

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Egantry47
Starlite Member
Username: Egantry47

Posted on Wednesday, July 26, 2006 - 08:24 pm:

"We started a war of days. It turned into a war of weeks. Now they are speaking of a war of months.

Our army started a "surgical" action of the Air Force, afterwards it sent small units into Lebanon, now whole brigades are fighting there, and reservists are being called up in large numbers for a wholesale 1982-style invasion. Some people already foresee that the war may roll toward a confrontation with Syria.

All this time, the United States has been using all its might in order to prevent the cessation of hostilities. All signs indicate that it is pushing Israel toward a war with Syria - a country that has ballistic missiles with chemical and biological warheads.

Only one thing is already certain on the 11th day of the war: Nothing good will come of it. Whatever happens - Hizbullah will emerge strengthened.

If there had been hopes in the past that Lebanon would slowly become a normal country, where Hizbullah would be deprived of a pretext for maintaining a military force of its own, we have now provided the organization with the perfect justification: Israel is destroying Lebanon, only Hizbullah is fighting to defend the country.

As for deterrence: a war in which our huge military machine cannot overcome a small guerrilla organization in 11 days of total war certainly has not rehabilitated its deterrent power.

In this respect, it is not important how long this war will last and what will be its results -
the fact that a few thousand fighters have withstood the Israeli army for 11 days and more, has already been imprinted in the consciousness of hundred of millions of Arabs and Muslims.

From this war nothing good will come - not for Israel, not for Lebanon, and not for Palestine. The "New Middle East" that will be its result will be a worse place to live in." - Uri Avnery is a journalist, peace activist, former member of the Knesset, and leader of Gush Shalom

http://www.metimes.com/articles/normal.php?StoryID=20060724-074058-6410r

Bubby
Starlite Member
Username: Bubby

Posted on Friday, August 25, 2006 - 08:40 pm:

Does this look/sound familiar?

Bubby
Starlite Member
Username: Bubby

Posted on Friday, August 25, 2006 - 08:41 pm:

Does this look/sound familiar?

Egantry47
Starlite Member
Username: Egantry47

Posted on Friday, August 25, 2006 - 11:35 pm:

Does this?

Look like an Egyptian horse carrier to you?

Bubby
Starlite Member
Username: Bubby

Posted on Friday, August 25, 2006 - 11:53 pm:

Naaah Abdul,it looks like that Israeli ship that Hezbollah couldn't sink.Either that or the Amnesty cruise ship.

Egantry47
Starlite Member
Username: Egantry47

Posted on Saturday, August 26, 2006 - 12:18 am:

AP � The State Department is investigating whether Israel misused American-made cluster bombs in civilian areas of Lebanon.

The United Nations said unexploded cluster bombs � anti-personnel weapons that spray bomblets over a wide area � litter homes, gardens and highways in south Lebanon.

"We are definitely looking into these allegations and we'll see where they lead," State Department spokesman Gonzalo Gallegos said Friday.

---------------------------------------------------------------
Reuters - "On Tuesday, a U.N. demining official told Reuters that Israel dropped cluster bombs on at least 170 villages in southern Lebanon during its 34-day war with Hizbollah guerrillas. The official accused Israel of deliberately hitting built-up areas with the bombs, in violation of international law, which states those munitions must not be used in areas where there are civilians."

---------------------------------------------------------------

"The New York-based organisation Human Rights Watch has come out strongly against Israel's use of cluster bombs, which it argued were indiscriminate weapons. The bombs released multiple "bomblets", which did not distinguish between soldiers or resistance fighters (or "combatants") and civilians.3

Although cluster bombs are not (yet) banned under international law, it is illegal for any military to use weapons or tactics that do not make such a distinction. It is therefore not the weapon itself, but Israel's use of these weapons in such an indiscriminate way, in civilian areas, which have amounted to potential war crimes.

Towards the end of July, Human Rights Watch also began investigating gruesome reports by medical doctors of bodies that had been blackened, but had not been burnt. According to a medical doctor in Beirut, such injuries were consistent with the use of unconventional weapons, such as white phosphorous.

These were confirmed by Italian scientists of the International Peace Bureau, who on the 9th of August issued an urgent appeal. Referring to these and other "countless" reports from hospitals and journalists, the appeal claimed that "new and strange symptoms are reported" that are consistent with the use of banned weapons, including "chemical and/or biological agents". Similar allegations were reported by doctors in Gaza."
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"A Congressional investigation of Israel's use of cluster bombs during the 1982 invasion of Lebanon found that the IDF used them in civilian areas. The Regan administration subsequently imposed a 6-year ban on the sale of cluster bombs to Israel."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HmcJwK28y4&eurl=

Egantry47
Starlite Member
Username: Egantry47

Posted on Saturday, August 26, 2006 - 12:35 am:

Bubby
Starlite Member
Username: Bubby

Posted on Saturday, August 26, 2006 - 12:40 am:

Sounds like you are a member of the Martyrs Brigade...

Egantry47
Starlite Member
Username: Egantry47

Posted on Saturday, August 26, 2006 - 12:44 am:

Sounds like your heart has hardened to stone.

Bubby
Starlite Member
Username: Bubby

Posted on Saturday, August 26, 2006 - 09:22 am:

Sounds like yours is bleeding..

Egantry47
Starlite Member
Username: Egantry47

Posted on Saturday, August 26, 2006 - 09:29 am:

Yep, it is, bleeding for all the children murdered and wounded. Do you have a problem with that? Want to Shock and Awe them again, Bubby? That ok with you? Hypocrites, can't stand them, but have a nice day anyway. I'm going to.

Bubby
Starlite Member
Username: Bubby

Posted on Saturday, August 26, 2006 - 10:01 am:

My sleep is not disturbed by your pictures or rhetoric...I've been there ,done that...so bleed on...and on....and on... "I don't wish to convert anyone to a different belief system of religion or politics, but only inform you, dear reader, of a growing FACT that Islamic Fascism is growing world wide, just as Nazism and Fascism in the form of dictatorships grew in the World in the 1930's. The parallels are there, the facts are there, historical relevance is there, and the World has to prepare for a global war of Islamic Fascism against every sort of other belief system that every other man, woman, and child live by, under, or for. Only the Muslims themselves can prevent this global catastrophe from occuring by ridding themselves of these fascist. If not, history will repeat itself, the World outside of Islam will unit and utterly crush Islam and those pictures of a bombed-out Germany, Italy, and Japan at the end of 1945, will be of Iran, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Indonesia. And in the end, millions of innocent people will be dead, all for mostly, just the few lives of a few radical 'leaders'."

Bubby
Starlite Member
Username: Bubby

Posted on Saturday, August 26, 2006 - 10:12 am:

Hippo krits? Name calling again? How shallow!!

Egantry47
Starlite Member
Username: Egantry47

Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 09:05 am:

Maybe we should stop fanning the flames of radicalism by blowing to pieces innocent Muslim men, woman, children and funding Israel so they can do the same to them and us.
How many Muslims were on the Liberty when Israel blew it up?

Bubby
Starlite Member
Username: Bubby

Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 10:09 am:

We? You mean YOU are part of us? I find that hard to believe.

Egantry47
Starlite Member
Username: Egantry47

Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 04:07 pm:

Hope you had a lovely Sunday, Bubby. I'm back but just for a few. Another hot date tonight. So many men, so little time.
Anyway, here's another pic of the Liberty I found just a minute ago. Look carefully at the letters and number and tell me if they look Arabic to you, like what you might see on say an Egyptian horse carrier.
Maybe you know, being a military guy, which ship was larger, the Liberty or the Cole?

Egantry47
Starlite Member
Username: Egantry47

Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 04:13 pm:

One more thing, I know something like 17 were killed and 34 wounded on the Cole, but how many were killed and wounded on the Liberty by the Israeli's? Another technical question, picking your military brain, why did the Israeli's kill the Liberty crew in the life boats? Mowing them down with machine guns seems so brutal. Did the Israeli's hate us for our freedom?

(Message edited by egantry47 on August 27, 2006)

Bubby
Starlite Member
Username: Bubby

Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 06:57 pm:

"The most thorough non-governmental treatment of the bombing is A. Jay Cristol's The Liberty Incident (2002). Cristol, a U.S. bankruptcy judge and former U.S. Navy lawyer, concludes that "the totality of evidence establishes that the attack on the USS Liberty was a tragic case of mistaken identity that resulted from a compounding of bad mistakes perpetrated by both the United States and Israel, and nothing more." He analyzes, and meticulously debunks, previous books, articles and TV productions that argue that the attack was intentional and government investigations only cover-ups."....that being said,we sometimes have a bad habit of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.In times of war,occurences such as this is inevitable.

Egantry47
Starlite Member
Username: Egantry47

Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 08:25 pm:

I was going to press you on this but there's such an underlying sense of sadness in your reply I won't.
That said, I think anyone who reads statements by the survivors will most likey disagree with Judge Cristol's conclusions.

Bubby
Starlite Member
Username: Bubby

Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 08:39 pm:

It's amazing what you can dig up on the net...Pallywood included.

Egantry47
Starlite Member
Username: Egantry47

Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 08:55 pm:

Hehe, I knew you'd stoop to that sooner or later. Little green footballs in your dreams.
Have a lovely evening, off to read my book.

Bubby
Starlite Member
Username: Bubby

Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 09:30 pm:

Probably something written by Jamie Gorelick...

Egantry47
Starlite Member
Username: Egantry47

Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 10:36 pm:

Not quite, Bubby. My three for the week are "The Prose Edda", Kawabata's "Snow Country" and and his "Thousand Cranes" and if I have extra time, "The Tale of Genji", which I keep putting aside. Are you still on George's favorite, "My Pet Goat"?

(Message edited by egantry47 on August 27, 2006)

Bubby
Starlite Member
Username: Bubby

Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 11:24 pm:

You are about as funny as a soup sandwich...A speed reader are you? Try Harold Blooms "The Invention of the Human"....or "Godless" by your favorite lady.

Bubby
Starlite Member
Username: Bubby

Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 11:26 pm:

What monstrous shrewdness you possess....somewhat modified ,but good enough for Pluto and Goofy.

Bubby
Starlite Member
Username: Bubby

Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 11:33 pm:

" She gives herself a shield, a sharp pointed spear, and a helmet for her head, while the aegis protects her breast. She shows an olive-tree with pale trunk, thick with fruit, born from the earth at a blow from her spear, the gods marvelling: and Victory crowns the work."....and then she wakes up in Disneyland..

Bubby
Starlite Member
Username: Bubby

Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 11:36 pm:

"The sun-god has circled the twelve signs, and a year is past. What can Philomela do? A guard prevents her escape; the thick walls of the building are made of solid stone; her mute mouth can yield no token of the facts."......HER MUTE MOUTH CAN YIELD NO TOKEN OF THE FACTS!!!!!A mute mouth?We should be so lucky ...

Bubby
Starlite Member
Username: Bubby

Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 11:43 pm:

" But if only we are willing to give things their right names, the thing is not an insult in itself:"....Charlie Brown?

Bubby
Starlite Member
Username: Bubby

Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 11:47 pm:

Life and Death
Western guilt blinds us to the nature of Islamic extremism.

BY SHELBY STEELE
Sunday, August 27, 2006 12:01 a.m. EDT

The simple back-and-forth of war can create the illusion that both sides have a legitimate point to make even when this is not so, and it is clear that Hezbollah's cause has greatly benefited from war's "equalizing" effect. This Shiite militia seems to have known that merely fighting Israel would gain legitimacy for its cause. A cease-fire would make it a "partner" in peace. The Goliath Israeli military would make it a David whose passion proved the truth of its cause. But amid all the drama of this war there has been very little talk of exactly what Hezbollah's cause is.

And, of course, it is not just Hezbollah's cause. There is Hamas, one more in a family of politicized terrorist groups spread across the Muslim world. Beyond these more conventional groups there is the free-floating and world-wide terrorism of groups like al Qaeda. In Europe, there are cells of self-invented middle-class terrorists living modern lives by day and plotting attacks on modernity by night. And around these cells there is often a nourishing atmosphere of fellow traveling. Then there are the radical nation-states in league with terrorism, Iran and Syria most prominent among them. From nations on the verge of nuclear weapons to isolated individuals--take the recent Seattle shootings--Islamic militancy grounded in hatred of Israel and America has become the Muslim world's most animating idea. Why?

I don't believe it is because of the reasons usually cited--Israeli and American "outrages." No doubt Israel and America have made mistakes in the Middle East. Certainly, Israel was born at the price of considerable dislocation and suffering on the part of the Palestinians. And yes, there will never be a satisfying answer for this. Yet every Israeli land-for-peace gesture has been met with a return volley of suicide bombers and rockets. Palestinians have balked every time their longed-for nationhood has come within grasp. They have seemed to prefer the aggrieved dignity of their resentments to the challenges of nationhood. And Hezbollah launched the current war from territory Israel had relinquished six years earlier.

If this war makes anything clear, it is that Israel can do nothing to appease the Muslim animus against her. And now much of the West is in a similar position, living in a state of ever-heightening security against the constant threat of violence from Islamic extremists. So here, from the Muslim world, comes an unappeasable hatred that seems to exist for its own sake, a hatred with very little actual reference to those it claims to hate. Even the fighting of Islamic terrorist groups is oddly self-referential, fighting not for territory or treasure but for the fighting itself. Standing today in the rubble of Lebanon, having not taken a single inch of Israeli territory, Hezbollah claims a galvanizing victory.